A reasonable article

'Why commuters won't get on their bikes -SMH rego required
(http://tinyurl.com/aucvp)

On the problems "shared" parking bikelanes.

I feel spoilt, the ones I remember in Adelaide actually worked becaus
they were wide enough to ride outside of door reach. Many of them wer
shared bike/bus lanes during peak, wide enough so each had their ow
space. Hmm, not really shared then.

And now, in Canberra, almost all the onroad bikelanes are on no parkin
roads.
Come to think of it, there are a few places were the lanes go pas
existing parking bays.
A naive cyclist, riding on the left of the lane would be puttin
themselves at risk

--
aeek

A classic example of the ones they put in around Sydney are the new one
alongside the Rhodes shopping centre.

They have a dotted line marking the car space - barely wide enough fo
the car itself to fit into, then a solid line 1m further across. Th
space in between is allegedly for bikes. The "bike lane" fit
perfectly into the door zone.

It's lip service at the extreme.

When they're not doing this sort of thing, they're doing "share
pathways", which are a euphemism for footpaths.

It's bloody stupid. All we really want is a wider kerbside lane.

Regards,

Suz

--
suzyj

aeek wrote:
'Why commuters won't get on their bikes -SMH rego required'

For future reference:

http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=www.smh.com.au

I have a personal gripe about those 15cm right angle concrete gutter
edging 99.9999% of the roads out there.

Alot of commuting is spent riding alongside these things & when thing
go wrong it only leaves one direction to swerve to (well 2 really but
don't consider 'going down' as an option).
Once made the attempt to jump it with a view to use the adjacen
footpath for an exit strategy, but didn’t make the height I needed so
went for the face plant (only problem with taking evasive action wit
rouge motorists is that you still come off but they continue on as the
consider that you brought yourself down- not their problem).


It's ironic in this day & age of saftey, that the biggest problem
have is impacting with all these sharp edged traffic advisory signs
Their placement & proximity to the edge of the road (where the bulk o
soft bodied cyclists & pedestrians are) is asking for an injury.

At least in roman times they built their roads for all users - horses
carriges & pedestrains. Now its motorised traffic only.
I don't want to say that pedestrains have to share the same space a
cars on a 'road', but how about alittle consideration for encompassin
all means of traffic in the design. If I could easliy walk everywhere
would, for example.


ranting over, ......

--
Marx SS

"aeek" == aeek writes:

aeek 'Why commuters won't get on their bikes -SMH rego required'
aeek (http://tinyurl.com/aucvp)

aeek On the problems "shared" parking bikelanes.

Shared parking lanes are the invention of Satan, second only to shared
paths IMO.

I'm all for encouraging cycling and the figures don't lie. One need
only look at St Kilda Road and the shared parking bike lane there. It's
bloody dangerous yet it's given people the confidence to get out on
their bikes because they've got a bit of road that's ``theirs.'' More
cyclists on the road means increased safety for cyclists AND motorists
(amazingly enough).

So in that context bike lanes are a good think? Maybe so but I think
we're tackling the wrong problem. You look at the VicRoads website
about cycling or BV (surprise surprise) and it's clear they're reacting
to what people tell them. More bike lanes = more cyclists. I reckon
that's fear and ignorance talking though. Bike lanes are only useful in
separating same direction traffic from bicycles. Funnily enough the
safest on road cycling you can do is same direction cycling with
traffic. So what are bicycle lanes mitigating against? Add to that
that far too many bicycle lanes peter out before a junction, the most
dangerous place for a cyclist, and who the hell are we kidding?

The increased safety that bicycle lanes bring about seem to be more a
function of getting more cyclists on the street than any innate property
of bicycle lanes.

The biggest issue facing a new cyclist is lack of knowledge. Picture a
thirty something person who's inspired to jack the car and get on a
bike. This person probably hasn't been on a bike since he or she
acquired a car licence and maybe never road in traffic. Easy peasy,
just hug the kerb as tight as you can to stay out the way of that REALLY
DANGEROUS TRAFFIC, wear a helmet so you're totally safe if you come off
and it'll be right.

How on earth is this person going get get the knowledge they need to
ride safely in traffic? It's not like there's an abundance of
organisations offering coaching in these matters is it? I mean anyone
can ride a bike can't they?

It seems to me that a lot more could be achieved by implementing a media
campaign informing all road users of the relative risks of cycling in
traffic and the correct manner in which one should do so. Something
along the lines of ``Always ride a meter out from the kerb or parked
cars. If the lane's too narrow for cars to pass, take the middle. Obey
all road rules. Cycling is safer than driving.'' Back it up with
quality information and maybe some courses and you'd open up all roads
to all cyclists.

Not only would this inform potential cyclists, it'd inform all other
road users as well.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Marx SS Wrote:
I have a personal gripe about those 15cm right angle concrete gutter
edging 99.9999% of the roads out there.

Alot of commuting is spent riding alongside these things & when thing
go wrong it only leaves one direction to swerve to (well 2 really but
don't consider 'going down' as an option).
Once made the attempt to jump it with a view to use the adjacen
footpath for an exit strategy, but didn’t make the height I needed so
went for the face plant (only problem with taking evasive action wit
rouge motorists is that you still come off but they continue on as the
consider that you brought yourself down- not their problem).


It's ironic in this day & age of saftey, that the biggest problem
have is impacting with all these sharp edged traffic advisory signs
Their placement & proximity to the edge of the road (where the bulk o
soft bodied cyclists & pedestrians are) is asking for an injury.

At least in roman times they built their roads for all users - horses
carriges & pedestrains. Now its motorised traffic only.
I don't want to say that pedestrains have to share the same space a
cars on a 'road', but how about alittle consideration for encompassin
all means of traffic in the design. If I could easliy walk everywhere
would, for example.


ranting over, ...... .


Na, rant happily away. You've hit the nail on the head, roads are no
badly designed & only cater for one mode of traffic. Last year
attended a LATM (Local Area Traffic Management) Seminar put on by BV
Attended by several dozen traffic engineers. Even though the semina
was about "building bridges" and comprehending cyclists needs, th
*group think* thing going on was frightening

--
cfsmtb

suzyj Wrote:
A classic example of the ones they put in around Sydney are the new one
alongside the Rhodes shopping centre.

They have a dotted line marking the car space - barely wide enough fo
the car itself to fit into, then a solid line 1m further across. Th
space in between is allegedly for bikes. The "bike lane" fit
perfectly into the door zone.

It's lip service at the extreme.

When they're not doing this sort of thing, they're doing "share
pathways", which are a euphemism for footpaths.

It's bloody stupid. All we really want is a wider kerbside lane.

Regards,

Suzy

Why do I always find myself agreeing with you on these issues? Probabl
'cos I ride everyday to work in Sydney as well...

All I want is to be able to use the most direct roads and get to wher
I'm going, safely - preferably without impeding anyone else's abilit
to do the same. Wider lanes on main/secondary roads is the simples
solution. I don't want to be dodging children, dogs an
goodness-knows-what-else on a "shared" path that you have to stop fo
every cross-street.

Who needs a "Bike network"? It's already there, outside your fron
door!

Ritc

--
ritcho

"ritcho" == ritcho writes:

ritcho Who needs a "Bike network"? It's already there, outside your
ritcho front door!

Amen! (does that count as a ``me too'' post?)
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

aeek Wrote:

I feel spoilt, the ones I remember in Adelaide actually worked becaus
they were wide enough to ride outside of door reach. Many of them wer
shared bike/bus lanes during peak, wide enough so each had their ow
space. Hmm, not really shared then..

I dont know which part of Adelaide you saw. There is only one or tw
back streets like that. For the most part the the bike lanes i
Adelaide are only effective during peak periods and other times car
can park in them. They are tight up against the curb, full o
depressed manhole covers and crap. For the most part i avoid riding i
them when ever possible.

aeek Wrote:
And now, in Canberra, almost all the onroad bikelanes are on no parkin
roads.
Come to think of it, there are a few places were the lanes go pas
existing parking bays.
A naive cyclist, riding on the left of the lane would be puttin
themselves at risk.

I love the way Canberra has set itself for cycling. Hope I can mov
there soon. :

--
jcjordan

jcjordan Wrote:
I dont know which part of Adelaide you saw. There is only one or tw
back streets like that. For the most part the the bike lanes i
Adelaide are only effective during peak periods and other times car
can park in them. They are tight up against the curb, full o
depressed manhole covers and crap. For the most part i avoid riding i
them when ever possible.


Partridge St, Glenelg and a mainish Rd out Magill way.
I tend to ride Brighton-Adelaide via The Crescent, Brighton Rd
Oaklands Rd, Daws Rd, Springbank Rd, Belair Rd, Unley Rd cos there ar
bends - weee!!!!!!!!
A variation for the return.


I love the way Canberra has set itself for cycling. Hope I can mov
there soon.

I really miss the Adelaide Grid, so many options. Between suburbs i
Canberra its the main roads, or the shared paths. The unlit shared pat
network can be impossible to find the suburb exit if you're not a loca
to that area. Most suburban roads are curved beyond reason t
discourage through traffic. Peds get killed on the main roads after
night out cos they don't have footpaths,
but they can't navigate the shared paths.
(Central & Old North Canberra excepted.

--
aeek