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Nearly got into an accident



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 14th 08, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Peter Cole[_2_]
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Posts: 4,572
Default Nearly got into an accident

PatTX wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2
feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned
right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake
just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver
didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side
street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is
standing still....

I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of
is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I
approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else?

Pat in TX



Unfortunately this is a common hazard, AKA "right hook". Depending on
the severity of the car's brake/turn, one's options become limited. I'm
a believer in "situational awareness" and so cycle with a rear view
mirror. It is impossible to anticipate a passing car's intention to turn
in your path, so knowing a car is passing is incomplete knowledge at
best (unless they're signaling). Besides being visible (lighting, lane
position, etc.) the best bet is to prepare either to stop or turn with
the car when approaching an intersection with a vehicle in a passing
position. Practically speaking this means general wariness and reducing
speed appropriately. If you assume every passing vehicle may right hook
then you won't be surprised when one does. Ditto for left hooks.

I think the problem arises because either the motorist doesn't see the
cyclist, or more likely, underestimates the cyclist's speed. It's a
particular problem for fast cyclists since drivers seem to assume a much
lower speed. Right hooks are especially lethal with large vehicles like
trucks and buses. Drivers of long wheelbase vehicles usually start the
turn late, so they may appear to be going straight until the last
second. Cyclists frequently wind up under the wheels.

Cars can stop faster than bikes, so a cyclist is vulnerable to a
collision in a panic stop. I first learned this the hard way 40 years
ago when I rear-ended a Chevy and wound up on the guy's trunk. Learning
how to brake a bike at the maximum rate is an important skill that, from
what I've seen, is pretty uncommon even among regular cyclists. It's
worth practicing (frequently)*. There's no way you can prevent 100% of
car-hitting-bike collisions (which are fortunately rare), but you should
be able to prevent almost all bike-hitting-car collisions just by
slowing down and preparing for the inevitable failure to yield violations.

In your case, you managed to avoid the collision -- although it was a
close call. You weren't taken completely by surprise and managed to
brake hard and keep the bike under control. I'd say you handled it. I
always ask myself, just as you are asking us, what could I have done to
have eliminated the close call, feeling that every close call is a
warning that the next time might not be so lucky. It's a statistical
game. You'll never get the risk to zero, but maybe reducing your speed
slightly and head/mirror checks will make the too close call into a not
too close call.

*The thing I like about mountain biking in this context is that it
really sharpens bike handling skills. Situations that are pretty rare in
road biking are "every ride" in mountain biking. Many of these skills
become reflexively trained after enough repetition.
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  #12  
Old December 14th 08, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 320
Default Nearly got into an accident

On Dec 13, 1:15*pm, "PatTX" wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2
feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned
right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake
just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver
didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side
street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is
standing still....

I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of
is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I
approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else?

Pat in TX


Keeping one eye in your mirror is a great idea, Pat but people who
make this idiotic move that you describe, typically don't signal
before turning, so it is kind of a 'crap shoot' in my opinion and you
just have to be prepared for ALL drivers to be idiots.

Glad you weren't injured.

Lewis.

*****
  #13  
Old December 14th 08, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Nearly got into an accident

On Dec 13, 2:15*pm, "PatTX" wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2
feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned
right!


As others noted, that's called a "right hook." It's a common cause of
car-bike crashes. I think it's helpful to know the vocubulary,
because it keeps you more aware.

It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake
just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver
didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side
street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is
standing still....

I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of
is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I
approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else?


I think two feet from the curb is too far right in most urban
situations. I'd feel vulnerable there, because I'd be blending into
the scenery, not viewed as a vehicle on the road.

If you ride further left, you're much more likely to be noticed; and
if that fails, you've got more room to escape. (The best counter-move
to a right hook is an instant turn hard right, staying inside the
car's path - and maybe beating on the side of the car when you're
within reach!)

If there's any hint a following vehicle may turn right across my path,
I move even further left. Control the lane, and wake them up. And on
the few instances when someone's attempted a right hook despite my
lane taking, I've been able to stop them by yelling at them and waving
them back.

I do use a mirror, too, and near intersections, I check nearly every
car that's approaching from behind for just that reason. But keep
track of the forward direction too!

- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old December 14th 08, 06:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 769
Default Nearly got into an accident

On Dec 14, 3:56*am, Martin Borsje wrote:
expressed precisely :





On Dec 13, 3:54*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article
, * * * *
writes:


On Dec 13, 2:15*pm, "PatTX" wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2
feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned
right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to
brake just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen
driver didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from
that side street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when
time is standing still....


I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think
of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as
I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else?
Pat in TX
there really is nothing you can do to prevent that; crossstreets,
driveways, parking lots they're everywhere as are the idiots who pass
and block you with their car.


There is /much/ a rider can do, and it begins with one's attitude.


hell, a simple short ride got me like
that ten years ago some girl driving her dads car ( who probabally
only drove a few goats there before being allowed to drive a 2000kg
car over here) ; front tooth, busted nose, I might have even lost an
eye by the extent of the gouges left on my brikos. you can ride slower
so the inertia doesn't carry you forward so much when you need to
emergency stop but that is quite anethama to the joy of cycling


I recommend a perusal of the book: The Art of Urban Cycling:
Lessons From the Street, by Robert Hurst. *It'll verify &
articulate a bunch of stuff you've already subconciously
figured out, and provide you with some more insights that
just might come in handy.


cheers,
* * * * Tom


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to
pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was
doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had to
pass me


Most likely she didn't even see you at all!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


no she did, she said so in the statement to police (she was charged
and pleaded guilty) which was brought up when I met with the insurance
agent. The onlt good thing was she was with state farm and they didn't
try to dick me around- which is the only appropiate way to deal with a
victim of an accident.
  #15  
Old December 14th 08, 09:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,751
Default Nearly got into an accident

Tom Keats wrote:

no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to
pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was
doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had
to pass me


When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta get
ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite
predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate instinct
people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this effect --
if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them will butt-in
in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the light. And if
you're walking your bike on the sidewalk, pedestrians behind you
will bust their asses to get ahead of you.


I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as
obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they
are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders realize
this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact with, and
even predict the movements of surrounding traffic.


So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was
pathologically hardwired in her psyche.


As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is
apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I
think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers
who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in
that style for many years without problem. I am surprised that police
cruisers ignore my law violations (as righteous bicyclists call it).
On top of that, as I reported on one of these topics, I found London
(GB) traffic even more accommodating in that matter.

I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you stupid;
please believe me, I have no such intention.


Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their
hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't understand
why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow humans when riding
bicycles.

The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was acting
in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying: that's
how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to be aware
of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I call it
"reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so esoteric. In
fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable. That's how
advertising agencies and casinos make so much money.


Well said!

That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works
against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably imminent
consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at us.


I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed.


Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't watch
the car but rather the driver's head and direction of attention as
well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear
headphones because there is much information about cars approaching
from behind in tire and engine sounds.

Jobst Brandt
  #16  
Old December 14th 08, 09:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Posts: 3,751
Default Nearly got into an accident

Roger Zoul wrote:

"PatTX" .net...


I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can
think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and
every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of
something else?


Glad you're OK, Pat.


I think you should definitely look for overtaking driving each and
every time you pass a cross street. I thought everyone did this.
Also, you should also consider moving to the left [to center of
lane] a bit if the traffic allows. I think being too close to the
right edge of the road can result in drivers on the cross street not
seeing you.


Of course this works mainly when bicycling in downtown traffic at
about the same speed as cars are moving, otherwise it's obstructionist
and causes other bad responses from motorists.

Jobst Brandt
  #17  
Old December 14th 08, 09:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,751
Default Nearly got into an accident

Lewis who? wrote:

So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side
about 2 feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then
immediately turned right! It was one of those "time-slows-down"
moments, but I managed to brake just enough to avoid hitting the
car's right rear tire. The teen driver didn't even notice, but the
older woman waiting to pull out from that side street was
astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is
standing still...


I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can
think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and
every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of
something else?


Keeping one eye in your mirror is a great idea, Pat but people who
make this idiotic move that you describe, typically don't signal
before turning, so it is kind of a 'crap shoot' in my opinion and
you just have to be prepared for ALL drivers to be idiots.


Yes, I'm OK but the rest of traffic is all morons. I guess the
bicycle superiority complex common. The rear view mirror folks seem
to be at the head of the group in this respect. Notice that there are
no rear view mirrors seen in bicycle races.

Jobst Brandt
  #18  
Old December 14th 08, 10:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
PatTX[_2_]
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Posts: 119
Default Nearly got into an accident

: If you ride further left, you're much more likely to be noticed; and
: if that fails, you've got more room to escape. (The best counter-move
: to a right hook is an instant turn hard right, staying inside the
: car's path - and maybe beating on the side of the car when you're
: within reach!)
:
: If there's any hint a following vehicle may turn right across my path,
: I move even further left. Control the lane, and wake them up. And on
: the few instances when someone's attempted a right hook despite my
: lane taking, I've been able to stop them by yelling at them and waving
: them back.
:
: I do use a mirror, too, and near intersections, I check nearly every
: car that's approaching from behind for just that reason. But keep
: track of the forward direction too!
:
: - Frank Krygowski

Thanks for the idea of quickly turning right with the car. I hadn't thought
of that. I don't know if it makes a difference with the idea of using a
mirror at intersections, but this was a T intersection to the right. The
road had two wide lanes and most cars on this particular road will move into
the left lane to pass. That's why I wasn't "taking the lane"--because people
hereabouts just automatically move into the other lane to pass a bicyclist.
I was lulled by my past experiences riding on this particular road out in
the suburbs....

Pat in TX


  #19  
Old December 14th 08, 11:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Roger Zoul
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Posts: 1,118
Default Nearly got into an accident


wrote in message
...
Roger Zoul wrote:

"PatTX" .net...


I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can
think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and
every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of
something else?


Glad you're OK, Pat.


I think you should definitely look for overtaking driving each and
every time you pass a cross street. I thought everyone did this.
Also, you should also consider moving to the left [to center of
lane] a bit if the traffic allows. I think being too close to the
right edge of the road can result in drivers on the cross street not
seeing you.


Of course this works mainly when bicycling in downtown traffic at
about the same speed as cars are moving, otherwise it's obstructionist
and causes other bad responses from motorists.

Jobst Brandt


How is it obstructionist to move to the left a bit if the traffic allows?
It's kinda hard [not to mention dangerous] to move into traffic the traffic
doesn't allow it.


  #20  
Old December 14th 08, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Roger Zoul
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Posts: 1,118
Default Nearly got into an accident


wrote in message
...
Tom Keats wrote:

no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to
pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was
doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had
to pass me


When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta get
ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite
predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate instinct
people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this effect --
if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them will butt-in
in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the light. And if
you're walking your bike on the sidewalk, pedestrians behind you
will bust their asses to get ahead of you.


I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as
obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they
are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders realize
this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact with, and
even predict the movements of surrounding traffic.


So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was
pathologically hardwired in her psyche.


As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is
apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I
think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers
who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in
that style for many years without problem. I am surprised that police
cruisers ignore my law violations (as righteous bicyclists call it).
On top of that, as I reported on one of these topics, I found London
(GB) traffic even more accommodating in that matter.

I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you stupid;
please believe me, I have no such intention.


Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their
hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't understand
why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow humans when riding
bicycles.

The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was acting
in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying: that's
how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to be aware
of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I call it
"reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so esoteric. In
fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable. That's how
advertising agencies and casinos make so much money.


Well said!

That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works
against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably imminent
consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at us.


I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed.


Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't watch
the car but rather the driver's head and direction of attention as
well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear
headphones because there is much information about cars approaching
from behind in tire and engine sounds.

Jobst Brandt


Hmm...so you don't wear a mirror but yet you have the ability to watch every
driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of
the cars wheels...in traffic for all cars coming up behind you? I guess
this is an example of the Jobst Brandt superiorty at work.


 




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