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#11
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Nearly got into an accident
PatTX wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2 feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is standing still.... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Pat in TX Unfortunately this is a common hazard, AKA "right hook". Depending on the severity of the car's brake/turn, one's options become limited. I'm a believer in "situational awareness" and so cycle with a rear view mirror. It is impossible to anticipate a passing car's intention to turn in your path, so knowing a car is passing is incomplete knowledge at best (unless they're signaling). Besides being visible (lighting, lane position, etc.) the best bet is to prepare either to stop or turn with the car when approaching an intersection with a vehicle in a passing position. Practically speaking this means general wariness and reducing speed appropriately. If you assume every passing vehicle may right hook then you won't be surprised when one does. Ditto for left hooks. I think the problem arises because either the motorist doesn't see the cyclist, or more likely, underestimates the cyclist's speed. It's a particular problem for fast cyclists since drivers seem to assume a much lower speed. Right hooks are especially lethal with large vehicles like trucks and buses. Drivers of long wheelbase vehicles usually start the turn late, so they may appear to be going straight until the last second. Cyclists frequently wind up under the wheels. Cars can stop faster than bikes, so a cyclist is vulnerable to a collision in a panic stop. I first learned this the hard way 40 years ago when I rear-ended a Chevy and wound up on the guy's trunk. Learning how to brake a bike at the maximum rate is an important skill that, from what I've seen, is pretty uncommon even among regular cyclists. It's worth practicing (frequently)*. There's no way you can prevent 100% of car-hitting-bike collisions (which are fortunately rare), but you should be able to prevent almost all bike-hitting-car collisions just by slowing down and preparing for the inevitable failure to yield violations. In your case, you managed to avoid the collision -- although it was a close call. You weren't taken completely by surprise and managed to brake hard and keep the bike under control. I'd say you handled it. I always ask myself, just as you are asking us, what could I have done to have eliminated the close call, feeling that every close call is a warning that the next time might not be so lucky. It's a statistical game. You'll never get the risk to zero, but maybe reducing your speed slightly and head/mirror checks will make the too close call into a not too close call. *The thing I like about mountain biking in this context is that it really sharpens bike handling skills. Situations that are pretty rare in road biking are "every ride" in mountain biking. Many of these skills become reflexively trained after enough repetition. |
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#12
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Nearly got into an accident
On Dec 13, 1:15*pm, "PatTX" wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2 feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is standing still.... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Pat in TX Keeping one eye in your mirror is a great idea, Pat but people who make this idiotic move that you describe, typically don't signal before turning, so it is kind of a 'crap shoot' in my opinion and you just have to be prepared for ALL drivers to be idiots. Glad you weren't injured. Lewis. ***** |
#13
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Nearly got into an accident
On Dec 13, 2:15*pm, "PatTX" wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2 feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned right! As others noted, that's called a "right hook." It's a common cause of car-bike crashes. I think it's helpful to know the vocubulary, because it keeps you more aware. It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is standing still.... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? I think two feet from the curb is too far right in most urban situations. I'd feel vulnerable there, because I'd be blending into the scenery, not viewed as a vehicle on the road. If you ride further left, you're much more likely to be noticed; and if that fails, you've got more room to escape. (The best counter-move to a right hook is an instant turn hard right, staying inside the car's path - and maybe beating on the side of the car when you're within reach!) If there's any hint a following vehicle may turn right across my path, I move even further left. Control the lane, and wake them up. And on the few instances when someone's attempted a right hook despite my lane taking, I've been able to stop them by yelling at them and waving them back. I do use a mirror, too, and near intersections, I check nearly every car that's approaching from behind for just that reason. But keep track of the forward direction too! - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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Nearly got into an accident
On Dec 14, 3:56*am, Martin Borsje wrote:
expressed precisely : On Dec 13, 3:54*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote: In article , * * * * writes: On Dec 13, 2:15*pm, "PatTX" wrote: So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2 feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is standing still.... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Pat in TX there really is nothing you can do to prevent that; crossstreets, driveways, parking lots they're everywhere as are the idiots who pass and block you with their car. There is /much/ a rider can do, and it begins with one's attitude. hell, a simple short ride got me like that ten years ago some girl driving her dads car ( who probabally only drove a few goats there before being allowed to drive a 2000kg car over here) ; front tooth, busted nose, I might have even lost an eye by the extent of the gouges left on my brikos. you can ride slower so the inertia doesn't carry you forward so much when you need to emergency stop but that is quite anethama to the joy of cycling I recommend a perusal of the book: The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons From the Street, by Robert Hurst. *It'll verify & articulate a bunch of stuff you've already subconciously figured out, and provide you with some more insights that just might come in handy. cheers, * * * * Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had to pass me Most likely she didn't even see you at all!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - no she did, she said so in the statement to police (she was charged and pleaded guilty) which was brought up when I met with the insurance agent. The onlt good thing was she was with state farm and they didn't try to dick me around- which is the only appropiate way to deal with a victim of an accident. |
#15
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Nearly got into an accident
Tom Keats wrote:
no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had to pass me When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta get ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate instinct people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this effect -- if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them will butt-in in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the light. And if you're walking your bike on the sidewalk, pedestrians behind you will bust their asses to get ahead of you. I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders realize this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact with, and even predict the movements of surrounding traffic. So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was pathologically hardwired in her psyche. As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in that style for many years without problem. I am surprised that police cruisers ignore my law violations (as righteous bicyclists call it). On top of that, as I reported on one of these topics, I found London (GB) traffic even more accommodating in that matter. I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you stupid; please believe me, I have no such intention. Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't understand why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow humans when riding bicycles. The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was acting in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying: that's how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to be aware of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I call it "reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so esoteric. In fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable. That's how advertising agencies and casinos make so much money. Well said! That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably imminent consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at us. I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed. Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't watch the car but rather the driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear headphones because there is much information about cars approaching from behind in tire and engine sounds. Jobst Brandt |
#16
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Nearly got into an accident
Roger Zoul wrote:
"PatTX" .net... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Glad you're OK, Pat. I think you should definitely look for overtaking driving each and every time you pass a cross street. I thought everyone did this. Also, you should also consider moving to the left [to center of lane] a bit if the traffic allows. I think being too close to the right edge of the road can result in drivers on the cross street not seeing you. Of course this works mainly when bicycling in downtown traffic at about the same speed as cars are moving, otherwise it's obstructionist and causes other bad responses from motorists. Jobst Brandt |
#17
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Nearly got into an accident
Lewis who? wrote:
So, there I was, riding straight down the street on the right side about 2 feet from the curb, when a driver passed me and then immediately turned right! It was one of those "time-slows-down" moments, but I managed to brake just enough to avoid hitting the car's right rear tire. The teen driver didn't even notice, but the older woman waiting to pull out from that side street was astonished. It's amazing how much you can notice when time is standing still... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Keeping one eye in your mirror is a great idea, Pat but people who make this idiotic move that you describe, typically don't signal before turning, so it is kind of a 'crap shoot' in my opinion and you just have to be prepared for ALL drivers to be idiots. Yes, I'm OK but the rest of traffic is all morons. I guess the bicycle superiority complex common. The rear view mirror folks seem to be at the head of the group in this respect. Notice that there are no rear view mirrors seen in bicycle races. Jobst Brandt |
#18
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Nearly got into an accident
: If you ride further left, you're much more likely to be noticed; and
: if that fails, you've got more room to escape. (The best counter-move : to a right hook is an instant turn hard right, staying inside the : car's path - and maybe beating on the side of the car when you're : within reach!) : : If there's any hint a following vehicle may turn right across my path, : I move even further left. Control the lane, and wake them up. And on : the few instances when someone's attempted a right hook despite my : lane taking, I've been able to stop them by yelling at them and waving : them back. : : I do use a mirror, too, and near intersections, I check nearly every : car that's approaching from behind for just that reason. But keep : track of the forward direction too! : : - Frank Krygowski Thanks for the idea of quickly turning right with the car. I hadn't thought of that. I don't know if it makes a difference with the idea of using a mirror at intersections, but this was a T intersection to the right. The road had two wide lanes and most cars on this particular road will move into the left lane to pass. That's why I wasn't "taking the lane"--because people hereabouts just automatically move into the other lane to pass a bicyclist. I was lulled by my past experiences riding on this particular road out in the suburbs.... Pat in TX |
#19
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Nearly got into an accident
wrote in message ... Roger Zoul wrote: "PatTX" .net... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Glad you're OK, Pat. I think you should definitely look for overtaking driving each and every time you pass a cross street. I thought everyone did this. Also, you should also consider moving to the left [to center of lane] a bit if the traffic allows. I think being too close to the right edge of the road can result in drivers on the cross street not seeing you. Of course this works mainly when bicycling in downtown traffic at about the same speed as cars are moving, otherwise it's obstructionist and causes other bad responses from motorists. Jobst Brandt How is it obstructionist to move to the left a bit if the traffic allows? It's kinda hard [not to mention dangerous] to move into traffic the traffic doesn't allow it. |
#20
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Nearly got into an accident
wrote in message ... Tom Keats wrote: no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had to pass me When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta get ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate instinct people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this effect -- if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them will butt-in in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the light. And if you're walking your bike on the sidewalk, pedestrians behind you will bust their asses to get ahead of you. I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders realize this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact with, and even predict the movements of surrounding traffic. So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was pathologically hardwired in her psyche. As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in that style for many years without problem. I am surprised that police cruisers ignore my law violations (as righteous bicyclists call it). On top of that, as I reported on one of these topics, I found London (GB) traffic even more accommodating in that matter. I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you stupid; please believe me, I have no such intention. Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't understand why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow humans when riding bicycles. The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was acting in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying: that's how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to be aware of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I call it "reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so esoteric. In fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable. That's how advertising agencies and casinos make so much money. Well said! That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably imminent consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at us. I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed. Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't watch the car but rather the driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear headphones because there is much information about cars approaching from behind in tire and engine sounds. Jobst Brandt Hmm...so you don't wear a mirror but yet you have the ability to watch every driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels...in traffic for all cars coming up behind you? I guess this is an example of the Jobst Brandt superiorty at work. |
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