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Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 3rd 08, 03:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

Cathy Kearns wrote:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
...
| One significant implication is that very large and very small frames
| have mostly vanished from the scene.

Very small sizes have been a consumer "problem" for years. Customers
shorter
than, say, 5'2 or so, may very well benefit from having 650c wheels
instead
of 700c. But such bikes sit & rot on the floor, because they don't look
"normal" or because some ill-advised friend says you don't want 650c
wheels
because you won't be able to get tires & tubes easily.


So I can find blue tires for my 650c wheels? Where? (Your brother's
store is close....)

I have a women's geometry 5000 trek from a few years back. I remember
test riding a slightly larger 5000, which we determined was too large.
And a different model women's trek the size of my bike. Both had 700c
wheels. I ordered the my bike, and didn't ask if it would have smaller
wheels, since the neither of those I test road had the smaller wheels.
Yes, they certainly look precious, but the bike does fit me.

However, the guys and girls on my rides all have 700c tires. When
someone has an extremely bad day, and goes through their stash of tubes,
the others can loan them tires. If I have an extremely bad day I'm
getting a ride home. (But with the cute little wheels the bike will fit
in any car.) My husband and I needed two different stashes of tubes at
home. I have 650c wheels, and I can tell you, you don't want 650c wheels.


Calling ISO 571-mm (aka 650C) wheels small is very odd.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
Ads
  #22  
Old May 3rd 08, 05:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Chalo wrote:

| One significant implication is that very large and very small frames
| have mostly vanished from the scene.

Very small sizes have been a consumer "problem" for years. Customers shorter
than, say, 5'2 or so, may very well benefit from having 650c wheels instead
of 700c. But such bikes sit & rot on the floor, because they don't look
"normal" or because some ill-advised friend says you don't want 650c wheels
because you won't be able to get tires & tubes easily.

But for the larger sizes, there is some hope. Completely out of the blue,
Trek decided to build a 64cm Madone this year. We sell quite a few of them.
For years, 62cm was the largest, so those over 6'3 were either difficult or
impossible to fit. We have now successfully fit someone 6'7 to a
high-quality road bike.


High-quality road bike? I thought the Madone was made out of plastic
and formed in a mold. I know it's expensive for what it is, but taken
all together that would make Madones the equivalent of '80s Oakley
sunglasses-- cooked up like polymer waffles and sold at an umpteen
squillion percent markup.

I have a 68cm Nishiki road frame, a 68cm Fuji road frame, and a 68cm
Cannondale road frame, and in the past I had a 68cm Schwinn road
frame. I find it a bit puzzling that the "technology" of making
frames for all sizes of adults seems to have been lost. I'm
especially puzzled in light of the fact that plastic Treks have always
been lugged, and thus could have been made in just about any size,
like the lugged frames of yore.

Chalo
  #23  
Old May 3rd 08, 05:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Cathy Kearns
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Posts: 120
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198


"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Cathy Kearns wrote:

I have a women's geometry 5000 trek from a few years back. I remember
test riding a slightly larger 5000, which we determined was too large.
And a different model women's trek the size of my bike. Both had 700c
wheels. I ordered the my bike, and didn't ask if it would have smaller
wheels, since the neither of those I test road had the smaller wheels.
Yes, they certainly look precious, but the bike does fit me.

However, the guys and girls on my rides all have 700c tires. When
someone has an extremely bad day, and goes through their stash of tubes,
the others can loan them tires. If I have an extremely bad day I'm
getting a ride home. (But with the cute little wheels the bike will fit
in any car.) My husband and I needed two different stashes of tubes at
home. I have 650c wheels, and I can tell you, you don't want 650c
wheels.


Calling ISO 571-mm (aka 650C) wheels small is very odd.


I believe I called them smallER than 700c wheels. Really, you think they
are the same size or something?

My problem is the 700c is so much more common than the 650c wheels that it's
almost a standard. Non-standard equipment is always harder to deal with.

  #24  
Old May 3rd 08, 05:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Large CFRP Frames

Tom Sherman wrote:
SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
[...]
Carbon frames that large tend to have problems of too much flex, which
is what the reviews of the 64cm Madone found. Colnago seems to have
solved this problem in their carbon fiber frames and they go up to 65 cm.

The larger CFRP frames being too flexible is just poor engineering, and
has nothing to do with the inherent properties of CFRP.


To reduce the flex in the larger frames requires some engineering
enhancements because of the the inherent properties of carbon fiber.
Apparently Trek just made the frame larger, without understanding that
this wouldn't work.

Colnago describes what they did at
"http://www.colnago.com/en/catalogo2008/extremepower.php".

  #25  
Old May 3rd 08, 05:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default Large CFRP Frames

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
[...]
Carbon frames that large tend to have problems of too much flex,
which is what the reviews of the 64cm Madone found. Colnago seems to
have solved this problem in their carbon fiber frames and they go up
to 65 cm.

The larger CFRP frames being too flexible is just poor engineering,
and has nothing to do with the inherent properties of CFRP.


To reduce the flex in the larger frames requires some engineering
enhancements because of the the inherent properties of carbon fiber.


Specifically what properties? Elastic modulus - all solids have one,
just differing in magnitude. Steel, aluminium alloy and
titanium/titanium alloy frames also need to be designed differently in
larger sizes to keep them from being more flexible than smaller sizes.

Apparently Trek just made the frame larger, without understanding that
this wouldn't work.

Colnago describes what they did at
"http://www.colnago.com/en/catalogo2008/extremepower.php".

"The Extreme-Power was born to meet the demands of sprinters Alessandro
Petacchi and Erik Zabel of Team Milram and three time World Champion
Oscar Freire of Team Rabobank who all have a power output of 180 kg for
each pedal stroke."

WTF? When did the kilogram (kg) become a unit of power instead of mass?

Quick, notify the General Conference on Weights and Measures of this change!

Do people actually get paid to write this stuff?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
  #26  
Old May 3rd 08, 05:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

Cathy Kearns wrote:

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Cathy Kearns wrote:

I have a women's geometry 5000 trek from a few years back. I
remember test riding a slightly larger 5000, which we determined was
too large. And a different model women's trek the size of my bike.
Both had 700c wheels. I ordered the my bike, and didn't ask if it
would have smaller wheels, since the neither of those I test road had
the smaller wheels. Yes, they certainly look precious, but the bike
does fit me.

However, the guys and girls on my rides all have 700c tires. When
someone has an extremely bad day, and goes through their stash of
tubes, the others can loan them tires. If I have an extremely bad
day I'm getting a ride home. (But with the cute little wheels the
bike will fit in any car.) My husband and I needed two different
stashes of tubes at home. I have 650c wheels, and I can tell you,
you don't want 650c wheels.


Calling ISO 571-mm (aka 650C) wheels small is very odd.


I believe I called them smallER than 700c wheels.


And you also called them "cute little wheels".

Really, you think they are the same size or something?


No, ISO 571-mm wheels are actually quite large.

This is a bicycle with cute little wheels:
http://www.cycleurope.co.jp/2008/novt.html.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
  #27  
Old May 3rd 08, 06:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

Cathy Kearns wrote:

However, the guys and girls on my rides all have 700c tires. When someone
has an extremely bad day, and goes through their stash of tubes, the others
can loan them tires. If I have an extremely bad day I'm getting a ride
home. (But with the cute little wheels the bike will fit in any car.) My
husband and I needed two different stashes of tubes at home. I have 650c
wheels, and I can tell you, you don't want 650c wheels.


My wife and I often ride together, her on her bike with 700x28 tires
on 20mm wide rims, and me on my bike with 700x60 tires and 38mm wide
rims. We have to have different sized tubes with us. I might be able
to swipe one of her tubes if I were riding one of my 700x40 equipped
single-speeds, but she would have some difficulty using one of mine.

That little detail is not enough to make me want to use the same size
tire as she does.

Chalo
  #28  
Old May 3rd 08, 08:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

In article ,
"ZBicyclist" writes:

Your forgot one...the sizing of XXXXXL for quite a few of the
Wally
World shoppers!!!!!


Yes, "Size 3" in the women's section is XXXL, "Size 5" is XXXXXL,
etc.


I never knew women's sizes were in Roman numerals.

A size 5 must be a willowy whisper of a woman indeed.
In fact, pretty much an imaginary friend.

The PC version of S/M/L is: Petite/Medium/pLus.
I dunno if there's such a thing as a plus-sized
women's bike. If there is, I'm game to hang around
with the women who ride 'em. If they're willing to
hang around with (IOW, put up with) me. Especially
if they'd let me try out their bikes. I'd let them
try out mine, which would probably be a pretty good
plus-sized women's bike.

I don't do arm wrestling with women, though.
Not any more. It's too embarrassing when I lose.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #29  
Old May 3rd 08, 01:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Stephen Harding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 386
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
| I see some bicycles in bike shops that also come in that kind of sizing,
| though they sometimes have XS, and XL as well.

Which isn't great, but it's a retreat from Giant's original idea that,
indeed, you could fit everybody with a very small number of sizes. I don't
know if there's a magic number, it bit seems that, with 13 different sizes
for many of my bikes (8 men's, 5 women's), if I can't fit someone, I need to
find a new business. Trust me, I can understand the desire to tame
inventory! However, the desire to properly fit people so they really enjoy
riding is more important.


Well since you're in the business, I guess I have to cut you
some slack on critiquing the micro-fit view of getting someone
on a properly sized bike.

However I'm of the school that a small number of frame sizes
actually are all that is needed to produce "suitable fit".

I have road bikes of 58 and 60cm sizes (Trek 520 and 2000)
and mountain bikes of 54cm and 22 inch (dumpster rescued Trek
7000 and Raleigh Mojave 5.0).

With the addition of stem extenders and high rise, long stems
and many long seat posts available on the market, all my bikes
are quite comfortable.

They are different enough that when I get on one of them after
an absence of some time, they can "feel funny" at first, but I
have ridden some of these bikes very long distances. Last
year I broke my saddle time record while on a tour with over 9
hours of actual peddling in a day. No real problems.

Add to this the adjustability of the body itself, I think you
can have a very small number of bike sizes, combined with stem
and seatpost lengths/adjustments to handle proper fit of almost
anyone.

You're always going to have some small/large sized person
outliers that require more custom fits, but I believe three
sizes of bike in some S/M/L grouping would be sufficient for
90+% of the pedaling public.


SMH
  #30  
Old May 3rd 08, 01:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default Wal-Mart Italian Road Bike for $1198

Chalo Colina wrote:
Cathy Kearns wrote:
However, the guys and girls on my rides all have 700c tires. When someone
has an extremely bad day, and goes through their stash of tubes, the others
can loan them tires. If I have an extremely bad day I'm getting a ride
home. (But with the cute little wheels the bike will fit in any car.) My
husband and I needed two different stashes of tubes at home. I have 650c
wheels, and I can tell you, you don't want 650c wheels.


My wife and I often ride together, her on her bike with 700x28 tires
on 20mm wide rims, and me on my bike with 700x60 tires and 38mm wide
rims. We have to have different sized tubes with us. I might be able
to swipe one of her tubes if I were riding one of my 700x40 equipped
single-speeds, but she would have some difficulty using one of mine.

That little detail is not enough to make me want to use the same size
tire as she does.

Does not your wife weigh about 1/3 Chalo?

Similarly, having two similar size riders on a tandem with the same tire
sizes and inflation pressures as they use on their singles would be silly.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 




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