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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 26th 07, 02:43 AM posted to aus.bicycle
rooman[_84_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


t'was coming back from Anzac Day in the city along Beach Road and saw a
nasty spill over on the path at Black Rock on the rise North of
Ricketts Point.

A lady in her mid 40s was following her hubby on their MTBs north along
the shared bike/ped path. After the crest above Rickets Point there is a
downhill run and near the bottom is a small bridge-like deviation of the
path towards the road in S shape that has been built to avoid removal of
a cliff toip tree on the beach side.

The lady was probably moving at a clip with the downhill, and had sun
in her eyes and didnt see the deviation. She hit the left timber rail,
bounced across the path, hit the right rail, bounced back to the left,
belted the left timber rail and an 8x8 upright with her left ankle and
hip, then bounced back to the right barrier, the bike stopped dead into
an upright 8x8 pole and she catapulted over the bars into the (egg
cutter) Wire Cables, hitting her head and neck hard into the cables and
landed flat on her back on the path with the bike landing on top of her.

People ran from everywhere and cars stopped.

She was alive, came to and couldnt move, had a suspected broken hip and
lots of bark off her ankle and arms and a nasty graze along the RHS of
her helmet .

She was also lucky, she could have gone over the cable guides and
landed in front of a passing car.

I stopped to render some First Aid, we had a nurse, a few other first
aid qual'd there and a few veterans all used to blood and sad sights.
We made her comfortable and shaded her from the sun and waited for the
Ambulance.

Paramedics came along and took her away to Sandy Hosp. with probable
internal injuries to her lower abdomen and pelvic area. Ouch...

Is this path safe? Is any path safe? Is it abused by riders? Is it over
used?

Bayside City Council has recently made some changes to the path to
remove the previous "bad law" interpretation they had, which gave cars
right of way crossing the path . They have changed this to ensure all
cars stopped before crossing the foot/bike path.

Many local comments from riders and pedestrians state in terms this
path has been one of their pet hates for its abuse by riders.

I am not saying this lady was abusing the path, just that she was
inexperienced and got out of control of her bike on a downhill and
didnt look ahead to see the deviation/obstruction on the path and ride
accordingly. We didnt test her brakes, so maybe an unkind thought if
they had not worked, but save for the scratches and twists from impact
it looked a well kept newish Mongoose MTB.

The path for its full length from near Beaumaris Motor Boat yacht Club
to St Kiilda has blind access points off the beach, often runs close to
the road, has deviations such as this for trees and some low overhanging
branches at points. It is very popular with morning walkers and people
with kids and dogs and trikes and little kids riding ahead of mum and
dad.

It is also used by many commuters, who IMO ride too fast (and
seriously)should be using the roadway.

I daily see commuters and some recreational riders fairly hammering
along this path. There are lots of prangs that could be avoided and
many more near misses.

The path is certainly a beautiful piece of viewing opportunity and is
along one of the most picturesque pieces of accessible coastline we
have. It is a path (again IMO) for taking it easy, for not pushing the
limits and one for sharing in the truest sense of the word.

I would hope that commuters reading this who are afraid or unwilling to
ride Beach Road and prefer to take this path consider a slower speed and
use the roadway more often and become confident ( and quicker) . Or
gather together and form a commuting bike bus to add presence to their
ride to and from work.

There are many paths around Melbourne (and Beach Road's path isnt the
only one) where riders do not do the right thing and either travel
fast, do not give way where necessary or fail to signal their presence.
This certainly has aggravated many non riding ( and riding) users of
the paths to write to Councils, the Press and spread the message that
bikes riders are inconsiderate and ignore the law, courtesy and common
sense.

Not all riders are like this, but you get the point, too many are.

I feel we should encourage as many poeple as possible who feel they can
only ride these paths (or are forced to by local conditions) to ride for
the conditions and keep a lookout, sharing the path and being
responsible.

I rarely ride bike paths, but now and then for a low key ride and at a
slow pace I do, and it is enjoyable, especially parts of the dedicated
bike path near St Kilda ( dangerous but enjoyable), so I do see that
many want to and will always ride bike paths. I just ask that we accept
they are not race-ways, they are to be shared with slower users and we
have to ride accordingly.


*When you ride - Be Visible, Predictable and Legal*


--
rooman

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  #2  
Old April 26th 07, 03:04 AM posted to aus.bicycle
EuanB[_28_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


rooman Wrote:
Is this path safe? Is any path safe? Is it abused by riders? Is it over
used?

I don't know if this is news to you:
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html and a lot more from
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/infrastructure.html

IMO the only path that can be considered safe is cyclist only, one way
and with priority at junctions. Of, like you, just use the road.


--
EuanB

  #3  
Old April 26th 07, 03:24 AM posted to aus.bicycle
rooman[_86_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


EuanB Wrote:
I don't know if this is news to you:
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html and a lot more from
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/infrastructure.html

IMO the only path that can be considered safe is cyclist only, one way
and with priority at junctions. Of, like you, just use the road.

Hey Euan-yeah... I know of the cyclecraft research and reports on
studies, it is a good summary for all to read, lots of links, lots of
revelations.

I concurr...dedicated as stated or .....(preference), use the road...

Sadly, we have the intervening human elements....failure in keeping a
proper lookout, acting irresponsibly and being selfish ..... these are
prime causes of most ills in life and too often lead to outcomes that
result in death and injury and deferring blame to any innocents guilty
by association.


--
rooman

  #4  
Old April 26th 07, 03:47 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Zebee Johnstone
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:04:08 +1000
EuanB wrote:

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html and a lot more from


Haven't digested much, but this caught my eye:

"More than one-half of accidents to cyclists occur at junctions. 80%
are related to turning against or crossing the path of other vehicles.
Where cycle paths are present, the most common collision type involves
motor vehicle turning right and cyclist going ahead. Often the motor
vehicle fails to cede right of way, but at traffic lights cyclists in
most cases passed at red."

which is presumably related to "Cycle track users most likely to run
red lights or cycle on pavements. "

although by "cycle track" I'm not sure if they mean off-road, on-road,
or both.

Presumably the problem boils down to intersection design - cycle paths
are an afterthought and the bikes aren't properly integrated into the
traffic flow.

Be interesting to see any stats on red light runners who are in the
traffic flow.

Zebee
  #5  
Old April 26th 07, 04:17 AM posted to aus.bicycle
MikeyOz[_40_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


Hope she recovers ok... the description you gave even read like it hurt
ALOT.

I know the bit you are talking about, surely this is just a case of
rider not taking into all the factors;
Sunlight/bikepath/concentration/skill level and suffered the
consequences ? Nothing is ever truely safe when humans are involved.

It is pretty bad that part though, cars going in and out, alot of
pedestrian use because of the beach/cafe, lots of cyclists, dogs,
runners and of course the extra speed coming down the hills. Nasty.


--
MikeyOz

  #6  
Old April 26th 07, 04:35 AM posted to aus.bicycle
EuanB[_29_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


MikeyOz Wrote:
I know the bit you are talking about, surely this is just a case of
rider not taking into all the factors;
Sunlight/bikepath/concentration/skill level and suffered the
consequences ? Nothing is ever truely safe when humans are involved.



OK, so we'll design roads so that they have 30km/h speed bumps but sign
them as 80km/h roads shall we? How about we make the road a pedestrian
zone while we're at it and keep the 80km/h limit? That's the road
equivilant of this bike path `design'.

Make no mistake, to the majority of people cyclist safety means
removing cars from the road so cars won't hit them. The utility of the
path is a very distant secondary consideration to these people as they
have no idea what bicycle safety entails.


--
EuanB

  #7  
Old April 26th 07, 04:44 AM posted to aus.bicycle
cfsmtb[_145_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


rooman Wrote:


I concurr...dedicated as stated or .....(preference), use the road...

Sadly, we have the intervening human elements....failure in keeping a
proper lookout, acting irresponsibly and being selfish ..... these are
prime causes of most ills in life and too often lead to outcomes that
result in death and injury and deferring blame to any innocents guilty
by association.


In all seriousness, the so-called alignment of pro or anti separate
bicycle facilities into a "argument" is a out of date furphy. The
discussion has moved on. Roads exist. Shared paths exist. Deal with it.
Decisions regarding planning for shared transport infrastructure should
be taken on a pragmatic needs basis, taking into consideration road
architecture, existing conditions and shared user requirements. Bad
design can occur regardless of whether it is or off road facilities. As
equally can good interpretations of adequate design and planning.

MikeyOz Wrote:

I know the bit you are talking about, surely this is just a case of
rider not taking into all the factors;
Sunlight/bikepath/concentration/skill level and suffered the
consequences ? Nothing is ever truely safe when humans are involved.


Yep, me too. Recalling something kinda similar, there's about 10
minutes of my life I'd like back from a month ago, ie: late afternoon,
travelling into the city via Burwood Rd with maximum sunglare, on the
road bike, in heavy traffic. So what do you do in such potentially
hairy situations? Simple, get off the bike and wait for the suns angle
to change. Sometimes a moments pause or paying attention is worth it


--
cfsmtb

  #8  
Old April 26th 07, 05:22 AM posted to aus.bicycle
MikeyOz[_41_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


EuanB Wrote:
OK, so we'll design roads so that they have 30km/h speed bumps but sign
them as 80km/h roads shall we? How about we make the road a pedestrian
zone while we're at it and keep the 80km/h limit? That's the road
equivilant of this bike path `design'.


I see your argument, not that I was trying to start one in the first
place, so you can back down a little bit if you want to.

So what do we do then, close all bicycle paths and get the government
and council to start them all from scratch ?? 30km/h per hour speed
bumps on 80km/h roads, I never even hinted to anything like that in the
first place. I simply stated that, that particular section is quite bad
and you need to be freakin careful when you ride down it, as 1 person as
found out.

Now, what will she do now ?
Go and sue the council which she might very well be entitled todo if
she has a good enough lawyer with mitigating circumstances and the
council will close the bike path so they don't get sue'd anymore.


--
MikeyOz

  #9  
Old April 26th 07, 05:48 AM posted to aus.bicycle
EuanB[_30_]
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Posts: 1
Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


MikeyOz Wrote:
I see your argument, not that I was trying to start one in the first
place, so you can back down a little bit if you want to.


Back down from what particular position?


MikeyOz Wrote:
So what do we do then, close all bicycle paths and get the government
and council to start them all from scratch ??


In an ideal world that would be a good solution.


MikeyOz Wrote:
30km/h per hour speed bumps on 80km/h roads, I never even hinted to
anything like that in the first place. I simply stated that, that
particular section is quite bad and you need to be freakin careful when
you ride down it, as 1 person as found out.


No, you didn't. I suggested it as an equivilant to rough as guts cycle
paths. You wouldn't have 30km/h speed bumps on 80km/h roads for obvious
reasons. Why do cyclists have obstacles which must be negotiated at low
speed and with care on paths which should be well surfaced? That's the
point I was trying to make.


MikeyOz Wrote:
Now, what will she do now ?Go and sue the council which she might very
well be entitled todo if she has a good enough lawyer with mitigating
circumstances and the council will close the bike path so they don't
get sue'd anymore.


On the other hand, they might just fix it which would be a good thing.


--
EuanB

  #10  
Old April 26th 07, 05:54 AM posted to aus.bicycle
EuanB[_31_]
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Default Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd


cfsmtb Wrote:
In all seriousness, the so-called alignment of pro or anti separate
bicycle facilities into a "argument" is a out of date furphy.


That's not correct. A furphy a rumour, or an erroneous or improbable
story (Wikipedia). I've been learning these things see, in preperation
for becoming a citizen :-)

Stating that many examples of seperated facilities are detrimental to
the safety of cyclists is neither erroneous or improbable. It has been
demonstrated several times in several contries.


cfsmtb Wrote:
The discussion has moved on. Roads exist. Shared paths exist. Deal with
it. Decisions regarding planning for shared transport infrastructure
should be taken on a pragmatic needs basis, taking into consideration
road architecture, existing conditions and shared user requirements.
Bad design can occur regardless of whether it is or off road
facilities. As equally can good interpretations of adequate design and
planning.


No arguement there.


--
EuanB

 




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