Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but weÂ’re weÂ’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/4/2019 10:09 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 4 November 2019 21:52:15 UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

I like my 1980s bicycles. the wheels go round, the bicycle goes forwards, the brakes will slow it or even stop it when I want them to, and I enjoy my rides.

+1. Also true of my 1970s bicycles!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 03:34:13 +0000, Duane wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:

I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both
more expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



I think you confuse recreation and sport.

Sadly not with the common expectation of what is required $$$ for
participaton in both.

Personally I preferr leisure bicycling,

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:11:35 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

That goes to show how unrealistic some people are. Put an electric
motor on the bike and gee! I'm just as fast as I was when I was
twenty...

Why not put on a bigger motor and Lo! One would be even faster than
they were at 20 :-) Or maybe an even larger motor and set records :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Who the **** said anything about being faster than when they were 20?

No one, but someone did say, "People buying these are more likely
sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. "

And I guessed that the "levels" would be what they were when they were
young and frisky, i.e., 20 years old , not what they were as they
coasted past 70, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:13 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up
to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



I think you confuse recreation and sport.

I don't think so. After all a sport can be a recreation. Think all the
millions that play golf, the majority of whom can't break 100.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.

If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a
notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing
programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially
chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites."

Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The
best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 02:24:05 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.

If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a
notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing
programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially
chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites."

Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The
best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Bicycling Magazine went that way in the 1980s. Too bad as they used to have some really great articles in it as well as How to do this repair tips.

Then again, many magazines have gone the same route. I can't remember the last time I bought a paper magazine. Mostly ads and a tiny bit of subject related content is why.

Cheers

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 00:15:43 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 02:24:05 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.

If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a
notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing
programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially
chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites."

Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The
best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Bicycling Magazine went that way in the 1980s. Too bad as they used to have some really great articles in it as well as How to do this repair tips.

I don't remember the name of the magazine but back in maybe sometime
in the '80's I used to buy a bike magazine that had all kind of good
information. How to adjust you seat and handle bars, etc. I even
remember a detailed article on how to patch "sew ups" that recommended
dental floss to sew the casing. I've still got a roll in one of my
tool boxes :-)

Then again, many magazines have gone the same route. I can't remember the last time I bought a paper magazine. Mostly ads and a tiny bit of subject related content is why.

Remember Popular Mechanics. they used to have some super how to make
it articles. I remember one that had, over several issues, detailed
instructions and plans to built a midget race car, I even remember
that it used a Ford 60 engine :-) Another series had an article about
making a knife out of a power hacksaw blade which my father used to
make a hunting knife that he used for probably 30 or 40 years.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 04:06:38 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 00:15:43 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 02:24:05 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates..

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.

If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a
notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing
programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially
chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites."

Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The
best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Bicycling Magazine went that way in the 1980s. Too bad as they used to have some really great articles in it as well as How to do this repair tips..

I don't remember the name of the magazine but back in maybe sometime
in the '80's I used to buy a bike magazine that had all kind of good
information. How to adjust you seat and handle bars, etc. I even
remember a detailed article on how to patch "sew ups" that recommended
dental floss to sew the casing. I've still got a roll in one of my
tool boxes :-)

Then again, many magazines have gone the same route. I can't remember the last time I bought a paper magazine. Mostly ads and a tiny bit of subject related content is why.

Remember Popular Mechanics. they used to have some super how to make
it articles. I remember one that had, over several issues, detailed
instructions and plans to built a midget race car, I even remember
that it used a Ford 60 engine :-) Another series had an article about
making a knife out of a power hacksaw blade which my father used to
make a hunting knife that he used for probably 30 or 40 years.
--
cheers,

John B.

I didn't read about it in Popular Mechanics but I too made many knife blades from power hacksaw blades. The knives I made had curved blades and were most useful for making things that like bowls or spoons. Things that required a hollowed out area on their surface.

I guess with magazines it's a downward spiral. Ads take the place of content which reduces readership more and to make up the lost readership revenue (as little as it is) the magazine ads even more ad content further reducing space for articles which further reduces readership which leads to yet more advertising space. Sooner or later the magazine becomes an ad magazine with a minuscule amount of actual article space. Before I stopped buying paper magazines I took a few apart and added up the amount of ad space and the amount of actual content. Even then I was quite surprised at how little actual article content there was and so I stopped buying magazines.

I have no idea what modern magazines are like with regards to ad copy versus article content but I don't think it's any better than it was when I stopped buying magazines.

Cheers

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:11:35 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but weÂ’re weÂ’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

That goes to show how unrealistic some people are. Put an electric
motor on the bike and gee! I'm just as fast as I was when I was
twenty...

Why not put on a bigger motor and Lo! One would be even faster than
they were at 20 :-) Or maybe an even larger motor and set records :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Who the **** said anything about being faster than when they were 20?

No one, but someone did say, "People buying these are more likely
sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. "

And I guessed that the "levels" would be what they were when they were
young and frisky, i.e., 20 years old , not what they were as they
coasted past 70, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
--
cheers,

John B.



Their levels, to me meant last year’s levels before that surgery or
whatever.

Jeez I know a lot of people around 70 that are in better shape than that.