c2c

On 20 Aug, 15:33, Tony Raven wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:26:45 -0700, leandr42 wrote:

Hmm, just looked at that on the map, it does look interesting. And there
are braking issues on a tandem you don't have to worry about on singles.

Not as bad as you might think. Unlike a single you are not going to endo
on a tandem so you can brake much harder with the front brake while there
is also minimal weight transfer off the back wheel so you can brake
equally effectively with that. Net result going down hill is you have
twice the weight approx and twice the braking approx dissipated on twice
the number of braked wheels. Also without the risk of an endo, you can
go downhill faster on a tandem because of its stability.

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a
blow out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that
happening on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep
hill... Plan is to rely on the back brake for controlling speed and
just use the front for actually stopping (our tandem just has two rim
brakes). If the back brake won't control the speed, then we'll stop
and check rim temperatures. I've had a back wheel blow at speed on a
hill on a single (for other reasons) and it wasn't really a problem,
more surprising than anything else.

Quite stimulating getting to grips with a tandem - every now and then
I forget I can't flick the wheels round a pot hole the way I can a
single, you have to set the line up a bit earlier. Quite pleased
yesterday to get it through a 6" gap at the end of some speed bumps
without mishap. Remembering when to tell stoker what you are doing is
another challenge - some thing are obvious, but it seemed so obvious
we were stopping in the middle of nowhere on a country road for road
works with traffic lights that it didn't seem worth mentioning.

Rob

wrote:

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a
blow out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that
happening on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep
hill...


I had that explosively on a mtb, on a steep hill on the c2c - not fun!

pk

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:52:24 -0700, leandr42 wrote:

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a blow
out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that happening
on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep hill... Plan
is to rely on the back brake for controlling speed and just use the
front for actually stopping (our tandem just has two rim brakes). If the
back brake won't control the speed, then we'll stop and check rim
temperatures. I've had a back wheel blow at speed on a hill on a single
(for other reasons) and it wasn't really a problem, more surprising than
anything else.

If you are doing a lot of long downhills consider fitting an Arai drum
brake to supplement the rim brakes. They are intended to handle high
thermal loads and are not so much for stopping as acting in continuous
drag mode to keep the speed down. I have ours operated from a gripshift
fitted to a Minoura Spacebar.

If its any consolation I had an explosive blow out of the front tube
(sidewall failure of the tyre) one the tandem on a steepish gravel
downhill in Finland. It wasn't that difficult to bring it to a stop
using the back brake only.

Quite stimulating getting to grips with a tandem - every now and then I
forget I can't flick the wheels round a pot hole the way I can a single,
you have to set the line up a bit earlier.

Yep, tandems go through obstacle rather than over them ;-) I have seen
a tandem bunnyhopped by a very together team but its probably beyond most
people.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks for the reassurance, but I still feel a bit worried. It's a
blow out from overheating that bothers me - really don't fancy that
happening on the front wheel of a tandem at speed going down a steep
hill... Plan is to rely on the back brake for controlling speed and
just use the front for actually stopping (our tandem just has two rim
brakes). If the back brake won't control the speed, then we'll stop
and check rim temperatures. I've had a back wheel blow at speed on a
hill on a single (for other reasons) and it wasn't really a problem,
more surprising than anything else.

Controlling speed with just the one brake is a poor plan - it's entirely
possible to find a hill which would cook one rim but would be safe with two.

Experience helps here, but things to do include:

Sit up and let the wind slow you down.
Go quickly if you can - more wind resistance.
Dragging the brakes is bad, although I'll do it sometimes.

Basically you want to lose energy in the form of heat. The hotter the rims
are, the more they'll lose per unit time. So getting them really quite hot
then letting them alone for a bit could well actually result in more heat
dissipation than dragging them while warm. Alternating brakes can work for
this too.

Before you've had experience, probably sensible to check for heat on the way
down and stop if necessary. Otherwise I'd agree on using the back more than
the front, but do use the front and don't be afraid to give it some welly.

And I've never actually blown tyres off, just holed them.

cheers,
clive

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:24:25 +0000, tracker1972 wrote:

we loved it, absolutely loved it!

Tracker.

Thanks for that Tracker.

So it seems a mountain bike is the way to go, not into tandems, need
someone else to help peddle!

Thanks for the general advice, back to the planning.

On 20 Aug, 16:39, Tony Raven wrote:
If you are doing a lot of long downhills consider fitting an Arai drum
brake to supplement the rim brakes. They are intended to handle high
thermal loads and are not so much for stopping as acting in continuous
drag mode to keep the speed down. I have ours operated from a gripshift
fitted to a Minoura Spacebar.

Yes, I've heard of them. But tandeming is strictly a budget project at
the moment - my partner sees it more as having fun for a year then get
rid of it thing. Our tandem rides very well, so any changes are being
kept to a minimum.

If its any consolation I had an explosive blow out of the front tube
(sidewall failure of the tyre) one the tandem on a steepish gravel
downhill in Finland. It wasn't that difficult to bring it to a stop
using the back brake only.

That's much more reassuring. It's not the stopping I'm worried about
so much as total loss of control. I don't know if that's what happens,
but I'd rather not find out.

Yep, tandems go through obstacle rather than over them ;-) I have seen
a tandem bunnyhopped by a very together team but its probably beyond most
people.

Wow, I'd like to see that. For some reason I wondered about
bunnyhopping, then I just thought, no, don't be ridiculous...

Rob

On 20 Aug, 16:44, "Clive George" wrote:
Controlling speed with just the one brake is a poor plan - it's entirely
possible to find a hill which would cook one rim but would be safe with two.

Experience helps here, but things to do include:

Sit up and let the wind slow you down.
Go quickly if you can - more wind resistance.
Dragging the brakes is bad, although I'll do it sometimes.

Basically you want to lose energy in the form of heat. The hotter the rims
are, the more they'll lose per unit time. So getting them really quite hot
then letting them alone for a bit could well actually result in more heat
dissipation than dragging them while warm. Alternating brakes can work for
this too.

Before you've had experience, probably sensible to check for heat on the way
down and stop if necessary. Otherwise I'd agree on using the back more than
the front, but do use the front and don't be afraid to give it some welly.

Thanks for the advice, I've still got a lot to learn. I know about
using the brakes in bursts to give the rims chance to cool. Also air
braking - I started to wonder if you could get a parachute for
emergencies, like the ones for planes landing on air craft carriers.

More seriously, one of the reasons I'm concerned (apart from general
lack of experience) is that our tandem has 26" wheels which I read
have 19% less ability to absorb heat than 27" wheels (they are
actually nearly 3" smaller, because the sizing assumes a much thicker
tyre.

Rob

wrote in message
ps.com...
On 20 Aug, 16:44, "Clive George" wrote:
Controlling speed with just the one brake is a poor plan - it's entirely
possible to find a hill which would cook one rim but would be safe with
two.

Experience helps here, but things to do include:

Sit up and let the wind slow you down.
Go quickly if you can - more wind resistance.
Dragging the brakes is bad, although I'll do it sometimes.

Basically you want to lose energy in the form of heat. The hotter the
rims
are, the more they'll lose per unit time. So getting them really quite
hot
then letting them alone for a bit could well actually result in more heat
dissipation than dragging them while warm. Alternating brakes can work
for
this too.

Before you've had experience, probably sensible to check for heat on the
way
down and stop if necessary. Otherwise I'd agree on using the back more
than
the front, but do use the front and don't be afraid to give it some
welly.

Thanks for the advice, I've still got a lot to learn. I know about
using the brakes in bursts to give the rims chance to cool. Also air
braking - I started to wonder if you could get a parachute for
emergencies, like the ones for planes landing on air craft carriers.

More seriously, one of the reasons I'm concerned (apart from general
lack of experience) is that our tandem has 26" wheels which I read
have 19% less ability to absorb heat than 27" wheels (they are
actually nearly 3" smaller, because the sizing assumes a much thicker
tyre.

Rob

Why do you need to use 2 wheels?

http://www.unicycle.uk.com/c2c.htm

Andy

On 20 Aug, 22:51, "AndyN" wrote:

Why do you need to use 2 wheels?

http://www.unicycle.uk.com/c2c.htm


Well on a tandem, we'll have the same number of wheels per rider as a
unicycle...

Seriously, I impressed, don't think I could do that.

Rob

wrote in message
ups.com...

Sounds good value, thanks. Doing C2C is just a concept at the moment,
I haven't done any serious research yet. C2C on its own looks maybe a
little short for us but C2C plus Reivers a little long. Anyway, we'll
see.

Rob

You might consider the Hadrians Cycle route for the return journey and stop
at Bowness upon Solway after setting off from South Shields. It's a nice
short crossing (about 100 miles) and you can turn back for Carlisle once
you've reached the coast.

Vernon