Yarra Boulevard - proposed 'cycling road'

Interesting idea to give over Yarra Boulevarde to cyclists. This surely has
to be the best candidate in Melbourne for a road dedicated to cycling - if
we can't get Yarra Boulevarde then we can't.........

http://melbourneurbanist.wordpress.c...r-to-cyclists/

Claude wrote:
Interesting idea to give over Yarra Boulevarde to cyclists. This surely has
to be the best candidate in Melbourne for a road dedicated to cycling - if
we can't get Yarra Boulevarde then we can't.........

http://melbourneurbanist.wordpress.c...r-to-cyclists/


First off, I do not know that particular road myself as I only ride in
Sydney.

My second point is that giving TWO lanes over to cyclists and ONE lane
to cars can alienate car users who can be aggrieved by the fact that
they can only travel in one direction - even worse if one lives on that
particular road.

Perhaps it may be better to SHARE that entire road, as is, between
cyclists and cars thru the liberal/prolific use of simple road devices
like painting bicycle signs and speed limits (non-slip of cos ) on the
road surface. I suggest that such a move can provide cyclists and car
users the opportunity to experience using a road which is clearly marked
as shared.

I, myself, regularly use such a well-marked shared road in Sydney, viz,
a small section between Regent Street and Elizabeth Street in Redfern,
ie Redfern Street. On this stretch of road, it seems to me (well it
could merely be psychological of cos) that car users appear to be more
patient and bicycle riders appear more confident. It is not often that I
see a female bicyclist ride down the street wearing a nice dress and
nice going-out shoes!

My views are probably naive and could be based on my own "kamikaze"
approach to cycling PLUS it is only one very very small section of road
in all of Sydney, so I have no idea if merely painting bicycle signs
and/or road speed limits can work anywhere else.

"Geoff Lock" glock@home wrote in message
...

Perhaps it may be better to SHARE that entire road, as is, between
cyclists and cars thru the liberal/prolific use of simple road devices
like painting bicycle signs and speed limits (non-slip of cos ) on the
road surface. I suggest that such a move can provide cyclists and car
users the opportunity to experience using a road which is clearly marked
as shared.

I, myself, regularly use such a well-marked shared road in Sydney, viz, a
small section between Regent Street and Elizabeth Street in Redfern, ie
Redfern Street. On this stretch of road, it seems to me (well it could
merely be psychological of cos) that car users appear to be more patient
and bicycle riders appear more confident. It is not often that I see a
female bicyclist ride down the street wearing a nice dress and nice
going-out shoes!

My views are probably naive and could be based on my own "kamikaze"
approach to cycling PLUS it is only one very very small section of road in
all of Sydney, so I have no idea if merely painting bicycle signs and/or
road speed limits can work anywhere else.

This is a much longer road than you're talking about but what you're saying
sounds sensible. If there were a way to convince motorists that it
'belonged' to cyclists and as long as they drove considerately there'd be no
problem then that might well be the way to go.

Claude wrote:

Interesting idea to give over Yarra Boulevarde to cyclists. This surely has
to be the best candidate in Melbourne for a road dedicated to cycling - if
we can't get Yarra Boulevarde then we can't.........

http://fat.ly/8tsi2






Having ridden the Boulevard recently, a good part of it already has either
marked bike lanes or in part a `separate but equal' cycle path using part
of the road surface with concrete separation from motor traffic. If the
latter was applied throughout, which it could be, I think the majority
would probably have little complaint, on both sides of the divider.
Regards,
Ray

--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au

ray wrote:
Having ridden the Boulevard recently, a good part of it already has either
marked bike lanes or in part a `separate but equal' cycle path using part
of the road surface with concrete separation from motor traffic. If the
latter was applied throughout, which it could be, I think the majority
would probably have little complaint, on both sides of the divider.

The separated cycle lane is a death trap - literally. There was a
serious accident there only a month or two ago and a friend of mine has
personally come close to grief. The problem is that cyclists going in
opposite directions are way too close together.

I think the Boulie isn't interesting enough to demand this treatment. It
doesn't go anywhere, and I don't want drivers telling me go use it and
get off the rest of the roads. I don't want to ride Beach Rd every
weekend either.

The surface needs improving though.



Hamish

Claude wrote:
"Geoff Lock" glock@home wrote in message
...

My views are probably naive and could be based on my own "kamikaze"
approach to cycling PLUS it is only one very very small section of road in
all of Sydney, so I have no idea if merely painting bicycle signs and/or
road speed limits can work anywhere else.

This is a much longer road than you're talking about but what you're saying
sounds sensible. If there were a way to convince motorists that it
'belonged' to cyclists and as long as they drove considerately there'd be no
problem then that might well be the way to go.

My apologies if I did not explain it properly. Regardless of the lenght
of the road, no road should belong to any particular group of users. I
am happy to share the road with anybody the authorities deem to be a
legitimate mode of transport.

My observations of traffic behaviour on well-marked shared roads were
intended to extend to any road of any lenght. Painting lots of pictures
of bicycles on roads can be a powerful traffic device to remind other
road users, esp car drivers, that there are bicycles about.

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:01:40 +1000
Geoff Lock glock@home wrote:

My observations of traffic behaviour on well-marked shared roads were
intended to extend to any road of any lenght. Painting lots of pictures
of bicycles on roads can be a powerful traffic device to remind other
road users, esp car drivers, that there are bicycles about.

But only if there are bicycles about.

Because experience trumps legislation every time.

Dunno if you get out as far as Homebush, but there's a cycle lane in
the door zone on the road alongside the shopping centre. It's got
little painted bicycles and lines marked and everything.

But because there aren't many bikes, people don't really register the
markings. So they open doors, step out without looking (relying on
hearing rather than sight) pull out suddenly and so on.

You can paint bicycles on the road and make line markings all you
like, but unless there's enough actual bikes that people expect to
encounter one those markings are just visual pollution.

Now if there was always at least one bicycle then maybe that might
change. But right now you can paint all you like, they don't think
about bikes because bikes aren't there.

I presume they aren't because while it's on my way to work I dunno
it's on too many other people's. There might be more bikes at
weekends when families are out doing recreational rides, but the only
ones of those I've seen have been on the footpath and I can't say I
blame them given the worry of having your kids on 1.5m of path between
possibly opening doors and definitely moving cars.

Back to the tension between "if you build it they will come" and "you
have to build where people want to be". Rhodes/Homebush was supposed
to be an area where travel routes were short enough that bicycles were
more attractive than cars, seems they are so short people who live
there walk. Or they are going shopping and don't think they can do
that on a bicycle.

You know that would be a good thing Critical Mass could do. List
areas that *aren't* the CBD that need to have a lot more bicycle
traffic on a regular basis and parcel attendees out amongst them.
"OK, we need 15 people to ride through Rhodes every day for 3 weeks,
remember to stagger your timing, we need one bicycle in view at all
times betwen 9am and 11am every day, probably need more for the M4
breakdown lane run, experienced only as the merge lanes are hell"

The idea being that "we are traffic" go out and be traffic. Getting
drivers used to seeing bicycles everywhere not in a big lump but just
being there being traffic. If every trip someone makes in a car
they have to cope with a bicycle every 20 minutes then cycling in
Sydney would be way safer.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

You know that would be a good thing Critical Mass could do. List
areas that *aren't* the CBD that need to have a lot more bicycle
traffic on a regular basis and parcel attendees out amongst them.
"OK, we need 15 people to ride through Rhodes every day for 3 weeks,
remember to stagger your timing, we need one bicycle in view at all
times betwen 9am and 11am every day, probably need more for the M4
breakdown lane run, experienced only as the merge lanes are hell"


cleans coffee from keyboard

Great idea!

Moike

Hamish Moffatt wrote:

The surface needs improving though.


Thumbs up to that

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:01:40 +1000
Geoff Lock glock@home wrote:
My observations of traffic behaviour on well-marked shared roads were
intended to extend to any road of any lenght. Painting lots of pictures
of bicycles on roads can be a powerful traffic device to remind other
road users, esp car drivers, that there are bicycles about.

But only if there are bicycles about.

True.

Because experience trumps legislation every time.

Funny how us plebs know that but the pollies don't

Dunno if you get out as far as Homebush, but there's a cycle lane in
the door zone on the road alongside the shopping centre. It's got
little painted bicycles and lines marked and everything.

Homebush, eh? I do go around Strathfield a bit so I might take a deour
one of these days to check out the scenery at Homebush. I hear there are
some great Indian food there as well.

But because there aren't many bikes, people don't really register the
markings. So they open doors, step out without looking (relying on
hearing rather than sight) pull out suddenly and so on.

You can paint bicycles on the road and make line markings all you
like, but unless there's enough actual bikes that people expect to
encounter one those markings are just visual pollution.

I do take the point about the lack of cyclists on the road although I
suggest that it is a toss up between visual pollution and the safety of
a bicyclist who might be on the road.

Now if there was always at least one bicycle then maybe that might
change. But right now you can paint all you like, they don't think
about bikes because bikes aren't there.

But a picture of a bike is Not quite the same thing as a REAL bike, I
know.

I presume they aren't because while it's on my way to work I dunno
it's on too many other people's. There might be more bikes at
weekends when families are out doing recreational rides, but the only
ones of those I've seen have been on the footpath and I can't say I
blame them given the worry of having your kids on 1.5m of path between
possibly opening doors and definitely moving cars.

True.

Back to the tension between "if you build it they will come" and "you
have to build where people want to be". Rhodes/Homebush was supposed
to be an area where travel routes were short enough that bicycles were
more attractive than cars, seems they are so short people who live
there walk. Or they are going shopping and don't think they can do
that on a bicycle.

It can be difficult to do the weekly shopping for a family on a bicycle,
I guess.

You know that would be a good thing Critical Mass could do. List
areas that *aren't* the CBD that need to have a lot more bicycle
traffic on a regular basis and parcel attendees out amongst them.
"OK, we need 15 people to ride through Rhodes every day for 3 weeks,
remember to stagger your timing, we need one bicycle in view at all
times betwen 9am and 11am every day, probably need more for the M4
breakdown lane run, experienced only as the merge lanes are hell"

Building such a critical mass would be a challenge but unfortunately I
cannot suggest anything easier.

The idea being that "we are traffic" go out and be traffic. Getting
drivers used to seeing bicycles everywhere not in a big lump but just
being there being traffic. If every trip someone makes in a car
they have to cope with a bicycle every 20 minutes then cycling in
Sydney would be way safer.

True.