Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days

William Belaforous Kelly wrote:

I've built a few bikes. I like doing furniture much better - less
design constraint. Even custom framemaking is very repetitive (to me)
- change a few angles here, tube diameters there. Yes, I will stick
to furniture and its offshoots. Very few design constraints in
comparison.

Perhaps you should consider bents. I bet Potter could come up with
100000000000000 different design possibilities.

Nick Burns wrote:
"Justin Lewis" wrote in
message news
Please read the information below and make your own conclusion as to
why you must never buy a frame from Bianchi! Would Bianchi still act
in this way if the defects had resulted in personal injury?

This is so lame. Nobody cares, and if they did care, why would anyone
take your word for it when you publish this in a forum that Bianchi
can't reply to? You got the exact result anyone reasonable would
expect. Granted, most others would say, "darn", right after my
friggin' warranty expired" and that would be the end of it. In fact,
things like that have happened to me and I am sure just about
everyone at one time or another. In fact, I am typing this on a 13
month old notebook that has a few problems that I should have had
repaired, but the warranty just expired a month ago.

Funny you should mention that. I'm writing this on my Compaq notebook--the
screen hinges went kaput 1 month after my warranty, and I now have to prop
the screen open on my desk lamp if I don't want the notebook to be open at
160 degrees. And to think, Compaq is one of the few brands with
non-user-servicable hinges.

"Justin Lewis" wrote...

"It can reasonably be expected that a frame of this supposed quality will
last 5 years."

"Normally one expects a frame to last for about five years..."

"A guideline in Europe is that any consumer durable should last for about
five to eight years."

Can you please provide legal documentation of these "expectations" and
"guidelines"?

"It would be considered unfair to limit liability for a defect in a frame of
this price to 365 days. The dealer recognized this and Bianchi did not."

At what point is it "fair" to end the warranty? Five to eight years? Why
not ten years? Or twenty? Why not a life time warranty? Should we mandate
lifetime warranties? Wouldn't that be "more fair"?

"Kyle Legate" wrote in message

Funny you should mention that. I'm writing this on my Compaq notebook--the
screen hinges went kaput 1 month after my warranty, and I now have to prop
the screen open on my desk lamp if I don't want the notebook to be open at
160 degrees. And to think, Compaq is one of the few brands with
non-user-servicable hinges.

That is exactly the problem with my HP. They probably (the subcomponent) are
from the same manufacturer. What crap. Mine sounds like it is not as bad as
yours since the screen works most of the time. Once every few days the
screen flickers (to the point of being unusable) and I have to gently work
the hinge back and forth until it behaves normally again.

"Runkle" wrote in message

At what point is it "fair" to end the warranty? Five to eight years? Why
not ten years? Or twenty? Why not a life time warranty? Should we
mandate
lifetime warranties? Wouldn't that be "more fair"?

What else would you expect from a commie like this dude?

"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:02:56 GMT, "Runkle" wrote:

"Justin Lewis" wrote in
message
news Please read the information below and make your own conclusion as to
why you must never buy a frame from Bianchi! Would Bianchi still act
in this way if the defects had resulted in personal injury?

Dear Sir,

On 1 December 2001 I purchased a Bianchi Boron Frame Size 58 cm from
Van Herwerden Wielersport in the Netherlands. I have used this frame
during the Summer months (March to October) resulting in a total of
13
or 14 months use. Recently (end of August ) the dealer from whom I
bought the frame established that it had cracked in at least two
places.

The warranty period begins the day the frame was purchased. Whether
you
ride the frame or just hang it on the wall, the warranty time clock is
still
ticking. According to your dates, the frame lasted approximately 600
days.

Your subject line is misleading and you are full of crap...I'm glad
you
are
not my customer.

I would echo the gladness at not being your customer: as I have stated
even the Dutch dealer assumes that a frame should be god for at least
three seasons.

The corolary of your reasoning, if it can be called that, is that you
believe that a producer can limit his or her liability to the period
of the warranty. A defect which occurs one day after the guarantee
period is purely the responsibility of the client, in your view.

I can assure you this is not the case in both the European and
American legal systems: were a frame that you sell to break and injure
a rider one day after the end of the guarantee period I assume that
you would display the attitude that is so evident above. I hope so
because, as is the case with Eddy Merckx recently, you would be found
liable for both the defect and the personal injury. The courts will
assume that a frame which breaks is defective and the onus of proving
any incorrect use would be upon you.

You're mixing apples and oranges. Liability for product replacement is
covered by the warranty. There is a warranty of merchantability and fitness
for purpose amongst others under the UCC. However, the frame is undoubtedly
a high end racing frame and was designed and sold fully fit for that
purpose. I doubt that you could prove that the frame failure was a defect
in a product not intended to have a significant lifespan.

Liability for personal injury is a far more complex issue under US law.
I won't even begin to address it here. Too many unknowns and intangables.
And you weren't injured anyway.

responsibility for your own actions or lack there of.

Liability refers to any legal obligation: implied into all contracts
of sale in Europe and the USA is a term (non-excludable, by whatever
means including the offering of short warranty) that the goods must be
fit fo the purpose for which they were sold and that they must fulfil
what can reasonably be expected from that product.

UCC implied warranty for fitness of purpose. I'd say you Bianchi was
fully fit for racing for a season as it was designed for that specific,
limited purpose.

Liability arises once that implied condition is breached irrespective
of the warranty.

Depends.........not so simple as a legal issue.

In its consideration the court will look at the price, what could be
reasonably expected of similar products and whether it was being used
for the purpose for which it was designed.

A guideline in Europe is that any consumer durable should last for
about five to eight years.

A high end racing frame is not a durable, like a washing machine, for
example.

Attempts to exclude this clause are not recognised: attempts to limit
its effect are judged in terms of fairness.

Equitable powers of the courts in the US are limited by statutory
provisions. Each state varies somewhat. While consumers have greater
protection in many states based on statutes (usually designed to prevent
consumer fraud) that does not preclude an individual consumer from buying
goods under a shorter warranty from one manufacturer that another. For
example, my 1998 Jetta had a 2 year warranty and that sucked. They were
losing business so my 2002 Golf has a 4 year warranty. If it breaks after 4
years, I'm not going to say VW is disreputable. I know the warranty that I
and VW are bound by as a matter of law.

It would be considered unfair to limit liability for a defect in a
frame of this price to 365 days. The dealer recognised this and
Bianchi did not.

The dealer made a business decision as is his right. Take Bianchi to
court on the warranty and let us know what happens.

"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
s.com...
William Belaforous Kelly wrote:

I've built a few bikes. I like doing furniture much better - less
design constraint. Even custom framemaking is very repetitive (to me)
- change a few angles here, tube diameters there. Yes, I will stick
to furniture and its offshoots. Very few design constraints in
comparison.

Perhaps you should consider bents. I bet Potter could come up with
100000000000000 different design possibilities.



Dumbass -


I'd rather be kicked in the groin.

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Stewart Fleming wrote:

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

it's a platform bed, you provide your own matress.



Can you make one like a Softride with a beam?


Most people get sufficient shock absorption from the
mattress. You must have some unique requirements.

In a previous message, I invited Heather for coffee.
Mind you, I'm still waiting for a reply.

"Nev Shea" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Kyle Legate" wrote in
s.com:

Funny you should mention that. I'm writing this on my Compaq
notebook--the screen hinges went kaput 1 month after my warranty, and
I now have to prop the screen open on my desk lamp if I don't want the
notebook to be open at 160 degrees. And to think, Compaq is one of the
few brands with non-user-servicable hinges.


Sounds like the HP-Compaq merger is a match made in heaven. I had a HP
desktop and the hard drive failed 1 month after the warranty expired.

NS

There is so much downward price pressure that it does not surprise me when
any PC tech products break like that. I am almost surprised when they do
last.

Unforteunately many consumers are uninformed about the durability
about many of the new frame materials out there. Some of the new
tubing like the Columbus Starship tubing is paper thin. I have heard
reports that it will crumple if you brake to hard. Most of the
magazines have done a poor job of writing about the durability issues.

There is also a lot of gimmicky products on the market today. I can't
understand why someone would pay more for a 3TTT composite handlebar
that weighs more and costs more than a conventional aluminum one. Part
of the problem is that riders have been to accepting of questionable
technology and shoddy business practices. A few years back when all
the acquistions were going on with Derby and Pacific they both turned
their back of the warranties form the original owners. I have worked
in this industry for years and I am ashamed that these business
practices have taken place.