The real scandal

The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested positive.
This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance compared to the
real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and Astana-Würth) which
were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because some of their riders
might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who might have precribed them
products on the anti-doping list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's has
been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere
suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were involved in the
decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign
or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that they
don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their lust for
power or whatever it might be. And why should they? Almost nobody seems to
care. Nobody or almost nobody has stated that the current anti-doping policy
should be drastically reformed. The innocence of the two teams seems to be
so umimportant that it has been hardly reported in the media.

Benjo

benjo maso wrote:
And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were involved in the
decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign
or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that they
don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their lust for
power or whatever it might be.

I expect anybody who recanted would make it into Torquemada Pound's
not so little black book.

benjo maso wrote:
The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested positive.
This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance compared to the
real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and Astana-Würth) which
were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because some of their riders
might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who might have precribed them
products on the anti-doping list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's has
been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere
suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were involved in the
decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign
or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that they
don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their lust for
power or whatever it might be. And why should they? Almost nobody seems to
care. Nobody or almost nobody has stated that the current anti-doping policy
should be drastically reformed. The innocence of the two teams seems to be
so umimportant that it has been hardly reported in the media.

Benjo

Thank you Benjo!
This is exactly what I was thinking. The accusations against these
riders seem to be falling apart at a massive rate. Really makes me
wonder just what was going in with the police and politicians.
If you follow any of our US news it's a lot like the lacrosse rape
caser at Duke university. The prosecutor was coming up for election and
needed a boost so he took a very questionable case and turned it into a
huge event with his public comments and actions. Now that he's been
re-elected he's saying he made mistakes, and look at all the other good
things I've done, as his case is totally falling apart.
The kids involved are jackasses, but in this case there's no chance in
hell of proving them guilty. They were rich, white, privileged kids and
the DA needed the support of the poor minority community to get
re-elected so he played it for all it was worth despite all the early
evidence punching huge holes in his case.
The first thing that has to happen is that the system needs to be
responsible. It takes a hell of a lot more courage to stand by all the
principles of a fair, just, innocent until proven guilty system,
especially when there is a huge public outcry from the media, than to
do a kneejerk reaction. Unfortunately courage seems to be in pretty
short supply, other than with the riders.
Bill C

benjo maso wrote:
The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested positive.
This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance compared to the
real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and Astana-Würth) which
were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because some of their riders
might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who might have precribed them
products on the anti-doping list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's has
been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere
suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were involved in the
decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign
or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that they
don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their lust for
power or whatever it might be. And why should they? Almost nobody seems to
care. Nobody or almost nobody has stated that the current anti-doping policy
should be drastically reformed. The innocence of the two teams seems to be
so umimportant that it has been hardly reported in the media.

Benjo


Agreed. Landis will have his day in court, or actually given the
lengthy appeal process, his many days in court. He and his lawyers will
have their chances to convince us that the science is wrong, or whatever
arguments they wish to muster.

What about the Puerto riders? The UCI has still not forwarded the
documents to the German or Italian federations. The riders remain
suspended indefinitely. Though Liberty has been cleared to ride, the
German federation refuses to allow Jaksche to race. Over the last few
days the president of the Italian federation has written two letters to
the UCI demanding that they forward the relevent documents so that the
federation can release the Italian riders from limbo (the letters were
published at tuttobiciweb.it). Despite the clearance of Liberty and CV,
the Vuelta organizors still refuse to allow CV to ride and may yet
exclude Liberty, or sorry, Astana as I should say. So their status also
remains ambiguous.

The delay and lack of due process are disgraceful. If the evidence is
so damning, then certainly the riders should be sanctioned. But not
without a chance to defend their actions. Trial by denouncement is no
justice. As you say, this is a scandal.

j

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:35:50 +0200, "benjo maso" wrote:

The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested positive.
This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance compared to the
real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and Astana-Würth) which
were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because some of their riders
might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who might have precribed them
products on the anti-doping list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's has
been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere
suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were involved in the
decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign
or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that they
don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their lust for
power or whatever it might be. And why should they? Almost nobody seems to
care. Nobody or almost nobody has stated that the current anti-doping policy
should be drastically reformed. The innocence of the two teams seems to be
so umimportant that it has been hardly reported in the media.

There is this very unseemly "gotcha" mentality in some people. We see it here
all the time. Guys who all but cackle when they think they see weakness or
vulnerability on the part of someone to whom they feel inferior. And these are
sometimes people with a lot to feel inferior about. The people who find
gratification this way are very quick to forget all about it whenever their
target is vindicated. By then they've moved on to some other target.

Prosecutors and cops are not only subject to this themselves, they know how to
play it for their constituents.

Ron

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:35:50 +0200, "benjo maso"
wrote:

The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested positive.
This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance compared to the
real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and Astana-Würth) which
were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because some of their riders
might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who might have precribed them
products on the anti-doping list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's has
been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere
suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded

That's the key here, are you referring to the fact that the riders
like Beloki got a letter for the Spanish prosecutor saying they had
done nothing illegal ? That doesn't mean they didn't dope right.
Clearly due process should happen but we shoudln't jump to conlusions
the other way round.

none of those people who were involved in the
decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign
or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that they
don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their lust for
power or whatever it might be. And why should they? Almost nobody seems to
care. Nobody or almost nobody has stated that the current anti-doping policy
should be drastically reformed. The innocence of the two teams seems to be
so umimportant that it has been hardly reported in the media.

Benjo

"benjo maso" solemnly wrote in
:

The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested
positive. This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance
compared to the real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and
Astana-Würth) which were not allowed to participate to the Tour,
because some of their riders might have been in contact with dr.
Fuentes, who might have precribed them products on the anti-doping
list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's has been affected and
perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere suspicion. And what's
even worse is that now that it's clear that this suspicion is
unfounded, none of those people who were involved in the decicion to
exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the decency to resign or at
least to say they are sorry and will do everything to prevent a repeat
of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they are right that
they don't care about the consequences of their self-rigteous, their
lust for power or whatever it might be. And why should they? Almost
nobody seems to care. Nobody or almost nobody has stated that the
current anti-doping policy should be drastically reformed. The
innocence of the two teams seems to be so umimportant that it has been
hardly reported in the media.

Benjo



Collateral damage from the War Against Doping

"Keith" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:35:50 +0200, "benjo maso"
wrote:

The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested
positive.
This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance compared to the
real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and Astana-Würth) which
were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because some of their riders
might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who might have precribed them
products on the anti-doping list. In other word, the career of 18 pro's
has
been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a decision based on mere
suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that it's clear that this
suspicion is unfounded

That's the key here, are you referring to the fact that the riders
like Beloki got a letter for the Spanish prosecutor saying they had
done nothing illegal ? That doesn't mean they didn't dope right.
Clearly due process should happen but we shoudln't jump to conlusions
the other way round.


The Comunidad Valencia was excluded from the Tour for only one reason:
because they were suspected to have been in contact with dr. Fuentes. The
Spanish court investigating Operacion Puerto case has announced the 28 july
that the Comunidad Valenciana riders "do not appear in the list of those
implicated in Operación Puerto." That means the team isn't even suspected
anymore by the Spanish court to have been involved in the Fuentes-case. Does
that prove that none of the members of the team ever doped himself? Of
course not. Nobody can prove he never took one of the products on the
WADA-list. But does that mean they should be considered to be guilty,
excluded from the Vuelta because of that document drawn up in Strasbourg and
so amusingly called the "ethical code"?

Benjo

"benjo maso" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested
positive. This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance
compared to the real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and
Astana-Würth) which were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because
some of their riders might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who
might have precribed them products on the anti-doping list. In other word,
the career of 18 pro's has been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a
decision based on mere suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that
it's clear that this suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were
involved in the decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the
decency to resign or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything
to prevent a repeat of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they
are right that they don't care about the consequences of their
self-rigteous, their lust for power or whatever it might be. And why
should they? Almost nobody seems to care. Nobody or almost nobody has
stated that the current anti-doping policy should be drastically reformed.
The innocence of the two teams seems to be so umimportant that it has been
hardly reported in the media.

Benjo


Worst can happen to us in our life as citizen.
Accusations proved to be false after custody, or month if not years in jail,
or even innocent with death penalty.
The suspension for the TDF, even for an innocent, seems to me to be a very
light injustice.


On other way, all the riders need to share part of the blame.
They had to understand that the public was bored, tired, outraged.
Who paid them all this millions ? The Sponsors ? No. The public along the
road.
What have them done for to extirpate this cancer ?
Very few, if not nothing.
We remember what happened to Simeoni when he began to tell the true .
We remember what Lance did with Filippo Simeoni during this stage of the
TDF.
We remember the way Lance and all his friends obliged Christophe Bassons to
leave the TDF
We remember Lance when he said " S'il pense que le cyclisme fonctionne comme
cela, il se trompe et c'est mieux qu'il rentre chez lui ".

Sorry Benjo, but too much " esprit de corps ".

Montesquiou wrote:
"benjo maso" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
The real scandal of the last weeks is not that Floyd Landis tested
positive. This unfortunate incident is shrinking to insignificance
compared to the real scandal concerning the two teams (Comunidad and
Astana-Würth) which were not allowed to participate to the Tour, because
some of their riders might have been in contact with dr. Fuentes, who
might have precribed them products on the anti-doping list. In other word,
the career of 18 pro's has been affected and perhaps even destroyed, a
decision based on mere suspicion. And what's even worse is that now that
it's clear that this suspicion is unfounded, none of those people who were
involved in the decicion to exclude them from the Tour, seems to have the
decency to resign or at least to say they are sorry and will do everything
to prevent a repeat of this blunder. Obviously they are so convinced they
are right that they don't care about the consequences of their
self-rigteous, their lust for power or whatever it might be. And why
should they? Almost nobody seems to care. Nobody or almost nobody has
stated that the current anti-doping policy should be drastically reformed.
The innocence of the two teams seems to be so umimportant that it has been
hardly reported in the media.

Benjo


Worst can happen to us in our life as citizen.
Accusations proved to be false after custody, or month if not years in jail,
or even innocent with death penalty.
The suspension for the TDF, even for an innocent, seems to me to be a very
light injustice.


On other way, all the riders need to share part of the blame.
They had to understand that the public was bored, tired, outraged.
Who paid them all this millions ? The Sponsors ? No. The public along the
road.
What have them done for to extirpate this cancer ?
Very few, if not nothing.
We remember what happened to Simeoni when he began to tell the true .
We remember what Lance did with Filippo Simeoni during this stage of the
TDF.
We remember the way Lance and all his friends obliged Christophe Bassons to
leave the TDF
We remember Lance when he said " S'il pense que le cyclisme fonctionne comme
cela, il se trompe et c'est mieux qu'il rentre chez lui ".

Sorry Benjo, but too much " esprit de corps ".

Let's just guillotine all the riders on the street in front of the Arc
de Triomphe after the final Tour stage finishes, because they are all
doping and we just haven't caught them yet, then we can apologize to
any that prove themselves innocent afterward.
At least Lafferty was suggesting a year long suspension of the sport
while all this was worked out and a new start for everyone, not a
continuing crusade, and "The Lord Shall Know His Own".
It's tough to find real estate farther out on the "hang the dopers no
matter what" road than Brian, but you are definitely getting there.
Bill C