FREEMAP: Free mapping system for walkers/cyclists: Legal (copyright) issues

Hello,

(to uk.rec.walking/cycling)
Many thanks to all helpful comments made on FREEMAP.

(to uk.legal)
A bit of background: I am in the early stages of developing a free,
web-based mapping database for walkers and cyclists, whereby users of
the service would enter a grid reference or place name and a map of
the area would be generated. Data (i.e. footpath or feature
coordinates) would be sourced through individuals surveying paths
using GPS (Global Positioning System) devices, hand-held electronic
devices which pinpoint your position on the earth using satellites.

(To all)
One or two people pointed out potential legal issues with other people
(i.e. not myself) contributing data to Freemap. Namely, people could
potentially contribute copyright data from Ordnance Survey mapping
products and claim that they surveyed it themselves. Could anyone give
me guidance as to how to assure that responsibility in such cases is
in the hands of the contributor of the data, and not me, the
application developer, nor any web hosting company?

Would it be legitimate for me to state, on the page where contributors
could upload data, a statement to the effect:

"All data contributed to Freemap must be sourced by the contributor,
or from other non-copyright data. Neither Freemap nor web hosting
company XXX will accept responsibility for any copyright data
contributed to the Freemap database. In these instances, Freemap will
support the copyright owner in identifying the source of the copyright
data" (sounds a bit heavy, not really "me" but if it has to be done it
has to be done....)

with "Accept"/"Decline" buttons, as per your typical software licence
agreement.

Users would also be asked to state from where they sourced the data. A
database of users and data sources would be kept (users would be
notified of this, and the reason why, as per the data protection act).

Or do I have to do things the old fashioned way and ask contributors
of data to send signed paper agreements to that effect to me by post?

Thanks,
Nick

In a recent message ,
Nick wrote.

[...]
Would it be legitimate for me to state, on the page where contributors
could upload data, a statement to the effect:

"All data contributed to Freemap must be sourced by the contributor,
or from other non-copyright data. Neither Freemap nor web hosting
company XXX will accept responsibility for any copyright data
contributed to the Freemap database. In these instances, Freemap will
support the copyright owner in identifying the source of the copyright
data" (sounds a bit heavy, not really "me" but if it has to be done it
has to be done....)

You'd need to have a notice on the main web page to this effect, but how
about something like this, which would have to be accepted by anyone
wishing to upload data:

'I confirm that the data I am about to upload to Freemap is not copied
or derived from a source covered by a copyright that excludes such use'.

This should take care of the problem with copyrighted material that is
made available for free, public use, but with conditions attached.

with "Accept"/"Decline" buttons, as per your typical software licence
agreement.

That's right.

Users would also be asked to state from where they sourced the data. A
database of users and data sources would be kept (users would be
notified of this, and the reason why, as per the data protection act).

Shouldn't be necessary, I'd have thought.

Or do I have to do things the old fashioned way and ask contributors
of data to send signed paper agreements to that effect to me by post?

Again, shouldn't be necessary, I'd have thought.

I don't have any expert knowledge in this field, you need to know g.

Regards,
Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton
Caversham, Reading, England

Nick wrote:

I am in the early stages of developing a free,
web-based mapping database

Data would be sourced through individuals surveying paths
using GPS

One or two people pointed out potential legal issues with other people
(i.e. not myself) contributing data to Freemap. Namely, people could
potentially contribute copyright data from Ordnance Survey mapping
products and claim that they surveyed it themselves.

Users would also be asked to state from where they sourced the data.

Surely if the data is sourced using GPS then the contributor would have
the relevant GPS files in their possession. In the case of tracks you'd
need to be sent the actual tracklogs, which in themselves should
constitute proof that they'd been created with a GPS since they'd
usually contain relevant time and date data for each point, as well as
occasional spurious points. A track traced from a digital map wouldn't
look the same, it wouldn't have the correct timestamps and it would
match the map too perfectly. Even without major reception errors, GPS
tracks often don't match footpaths perfectly.

Waypoint grid refs would be more tricky, since they could be submitted
in simple text format, but again, real waypoints collected with a GPS
would rarely ever match the exact coordinates that you'd get if you
marked the waypoint on a digital map, so there should be realistic
differences, although more difficult to prove.

Why not set a requirement that all submitted data be provided (or
substantiated) in the form of the raw (unedited) GPS track and waypoint
files? Thus the submitted files would effectively constitute the proof
that they were sourced by GPS.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

"Paul Saunders" wrote in message
...
Nick wrote:

I am in the early stages of developing a free,
web-based mapping database

Data would be sourced through individuals surveying paths
using GPS

One or two people pointed out potential legal issues with other people
(i.e. not myself) contributing data to Freemap. Namely, people could
potentially contribute copyright data from Ordnance Survey mapping
products and claim that they surveyed it themselves.

Users would also be asked to state from where they sourced the data.

Surely if the data is sourced using GPS then the contributor would have
the relevant GPS files in their possession. In the case of tracks you'd
need to be sent the actual tracklogs, which in themselves should
constitute proof that they'd been created with a GPS since they'd
usually contain relevant time and date data for each point, as well as
occasional spurious points. A track traced from a digital map wouldn't
look the same, it wouldn't have the correct timestamps and it would
match the map too perfectly. Even without major reception errors, GPS
tracks often don't match footpaths perfectly.

Are GPS reference copyright to the people who own the satellites? Or the
people who made the GPS receiver?

Paul Saunders wrote:
Nick wrote:

I am in the early stages of developing a free,
web-based mapping database

Data would be sourced through individuals surveying paths
using GPS

One or two people pointed out potential legal issues with other
people (i.e. not myself) contributing data to Freemap. Namely,
people could potentially contribute copyright data from Ordnance
Survey mapping products and claim that they surveyed it themselves.

Users would also be asked to state from where they sourced the data.

Surely if the data is sourced using GPS then the contributor would
have the relevant GPS files in their possession. In the case of
tracks you'd need to be sent the actual tracklogs, which in
themselves should constitute proof that they'd been created with a
GPS since they'd usually contain relevant time and date data for each
point, as well as occasional spurious points. A track traced from a
digital map wouldn't look the same, it wouldn't have the correct
timestamps and it would match the map too perfectly. Even without
major reception errors, GPS tracks often don't match footpaths
perfectly.


Have you seen www.geowiki.com

In article ,
Paul Saunders wrote:
Surely if the data is sourced using GPS then the contributor would have
the relevant GPS files in their possession. In the case of tracks you'd

I think it would be for the OS to prove that your data came from their
maps, not vice versa.

In practice the difference would be easy to show, as GPS data would
align to the ground far more closely than references taken from the
maps. That's because (a) the fundamental levelling has yet to be made
100% GPS compliant and (b) it's unlikely, without access to very large
scale maps, that you would measure things off the sheets to match GPS.
The chances of a set of eight or ten figure grid references taken off a
handheld matching a measurement taken from a consumer map (1:25000 or
something) are approximately zero.

ian

In article ,
Steve Maudsley wrote:
Are GPS reference copyright to the people who own the satellites? Or the
people who made the GPS receiver?

Neither.

ian

Are GPS reference copyright to the people who own the satellites? Or the
people who made the GPS receiver?

As per the general principle of copyright law : they are the copyright
of the person who made the recording, ie the GPS user.

Except that, constituting a mere list of points, I'm not certain whether
or not they can be copyrighted at all ?

--
Boo

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Boo wrote:

Are GPS reference copyright to the people who own the satellites? Or the
people who made the GPS receiver?

As per the general principle of copyright law : they are the copyright
of the person who made the recording, ie the GPS user.

Except that, constituting a mere list of points, I'm not certain whether
or not they can be copyrighted at all ?

A similar subject came up in the Go newsgroup. Somebody asked what the
copyright position would be on Go problems which they created and made
available if it turned out that a specific problem already existed
somewhere else. Since these problems are merely sequences of moves on a
board, which anyone could play or think of, such a situation could
arise.

The general consensus was that it would be hard to claim copyright on a
mere problem (because practically anyone could think of that problem)
but it would likely be easier to claim copyright on a collection of
problems (because they represent the collection owner's work in
selecting them and putting them together to form something unique).

--
Chris

Ian G Batten wrote in message ...
In article ,
Paul Saunders wrote:
Surely if the data is sourced using GPS then the contributor would have
the relevant GPS files in their possession. In the case of tracks you'd

I think it would be for the OS to prove that your data came from their
maps, not vice versa.

There are a number of deliberate minor mistakes in OS maps. As long as
you don't have the mistakes in your maps then you are ok.

Robert