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Hitting your head



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 16th 20, 04:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default Hitting your head

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 3:15:12 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:01:30 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:10:32 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/15/2020 6:32 PM, Uncle Wiggly wrote:

I do believe that helmets do have one very positive effect - they change relatively light injuries from the most common accidents - single bike falls from rider error - from light injuries to little or much lighter injuries. Or instead of having painful scraping of an ear or scalp, these are eliminated. I see this as a reason to wear a helmet.

I see this as a reason not to crash. So far that tactic has worked very
well. I've literally never needed the protection of a helmet.

Admittedly, I've only been riding for 50-something years as an adult.
(Plus maybe 15 years as a kid.) We'll see how things go in my future.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank I consider myself as a competent and cautious bike rider and I thought I could prevent a crash if I was riding alone and could control my own risk. That believe came to an end with my crash last year into a woman that suddenly appeared out of the bushes from the dark onto a well lit bike path I was riding on. I was wearing conspicious clothes and running top af the bill lights. I took a hit on my head, broke two ribs and my collarbone, so it was a serious crash which I have no remembrance of. Result is that now I not only wear a helmet on group rides, off road rides or hilly/mounain rides but also on my evening rides in the dark. It took a while before my confidence was such that I leave my helmet off now and then on flat rides, alone in daylight. I'm not claiming anything and don't trust any statistic studies about helmets use and I don't care. I just do my own risk assesment and I discovered that there are people that do stupid things you can't anticipate on. I have no opinion about other peoples reasons to wear a helmet or not, maybe you should do the same.

Lou


Every crash is preventable, just don't ride your bike, and if you must ride, don't (1) ride in a group, (2) ride near cars or pedestrians, (3) ride in low traction environment like wet, snowy or icy roads. Riding at night is probably a bad idea, and never, ever ride a mountain bike on an actual trail. My last crash was dopey, but I wasn't doing anything wrong. My friend bobbled and ran into me -- which would be no big deal except that our bars got tangled. I bumped people a million times on the track, but hitting elbows or shoulders is different from getting equipment tangled up.

Frank also lives in this idyllic village where drivers waive and congratulate him on his fine dyno lighting. In downtown PDX, I'm dodging students and/or lunatic homeless people launching off the curb into the road willy-nilly. I was JRA in the middle of the lane on 9/11/01 and a bus hit me from behind. WTF? I wasn't hurt, but sh** happens even when you're riding in the middle of the lane and "controlling traffic."

-- Jay Beattie.


Come on Jay, you can't list that hit by the bus as "**** happens". The bus driver recognised you and has been bragging since: "I collected me an attorney."

Andre Jute
Take a deposition, Miss Smithers
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  #22  
Old January 16th 20, 04:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default Hitting your head

Am 16.01.2020 um 15:34 schrieb sms:

I have never favored MHLs.

However there is no dispute about the benefits of helmets in terms of
injury prevention and reduction. The scientific evidence is irrefutable.
The statistical evidence is irrefutable.


Yes, there is dispute about the benefits of helmets. Hospital studies
all clearly show that helmets are useful while population studies show
that helmets are useless. This discrepancy has not been resolved, hence
it is not known whether ans to which extent helmets are useful.
  #23  
Old January 16th 20, 06:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Hitting your head

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 7:37:51 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 3:15:12 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:01:30 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:10:32 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/15/2020 6:32 PM, Uncle Wiggly wrote:

I do believe that helmets do have one very positive effect - they change relatively light injuries from the most common accidents - single bike falls from rider error - from light injuries to little or much lighter injuries. Or instead of having painful scraping of an ear or scalp, these are eliminated. I see this as a reason to wear a helmet.

I see this as a reason not to crash. So far that tactic has worked very
well. I've literally never needed the protection of a helmet.

Admittedly, I've only been riding for 50-something years as an adult.
(Plus maybe 15 years as a kid.) We'll see how things go in my future.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank I consider myself as a competent and cautious bike rider and I thought I could prevent a crash if I was riding alone and could control my own risk. That believe came to an end with my crash last year into a woman that suddenly appeared out of the bushes from the dark onto a well lit bike path I was riding on. I was wearing conspicious clothes and running top af the bill lights. I took a hit on my head, broke two ribs and my collarbone, so it was a serious crash which I have no remembrance of. Result is that now I not only wear a helmet on group rides, off road rides or hilly/mounain rides but also on my evening rides in the dark. It took a while before my confidence was such that I leave my helmet off now and then on flat rides, alone in daylight. I'm not claiming anything and don't trust any statistic studies about helmets use and I don't care. I just do my own risk assesment and I discovered that there are people that do stupid things you can't anticipate on. I have no opinion about other peoples reasons to wear a helmet or not, maybe you should do the same.

Lou


Every crash is preventable, just don't ride your bike, and if you must ride, don't (1) ride in a group, (2) ride near cars or pedestrians, (3) ride in low traction environment like wet, snowy or icy roads. Riding at night is probably a bad idea, and never, ever ride a mountain bike on an actual trail. My last crash was dopey, but I wasn't doing anything wrong. My friend bobbled and ran into me -- which would be no big deal except that our bars got tangled. I bumped people a million times on the track, but hitting elbows or shoulders is different from getting equipment tangled up.

Frank also lives in this idyllic village where drivers waive and congratulate him on his fine dyno lighting. In downtown PDX, I'm dodging students and/or lunatic homeless people launching off the curb into the road willy-nilly. I was JRA in the middle of the lane on 9/11/01 and a bus hit me from behind. WTF? I wasn't hurt, but sh** happens even when you're riding in the middle of the lane and "controlling traffic."

-- Jay Beattie.


Come on Jay, you can't list that hit by the bus as "**** happens". The bus driver recognised you and has been bragging since: "I collected me an attorney."


Luckily I wasn't arrested. The bus stopped; I got on and totally unloaded on the driver, who claimed that he was somehow pushed into me from the other lane by a "sports car." I'm sure I was captured on CCTV somewhere. That roadway is now a bus mall qua killing field for cyclist. It has a byzantine bike facility that jumps riders up and over curbs, in front of turning street cars and constantly turning cars -- with lots of slick, decorative bricks and drain grates just for added fun. https://www.flickr.com/photos/479119...n/photostream/ You launch off the curb in front of the turning street car, pedestrians, turning cars, charging rinos, etc., etc.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #24  
Old January 16th 20, 07:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Hitting your head

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 5:00:12 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 7:37:51 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 3:15:12 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:

Frank also lives in this idyllic village where drivers waive and congratulate him on his fine dyno lighting. In downtown PDX, I'm dodging students and/or lunatic homeless people launching off the curb into the road willy-nilly. I was JRA in the middle of the lane on 9/11/01 and a bus hit me from behind. WTF? I wasn't hurt, but sh** happens even when you're riding in the middle of the lane and "controlling traffic."

-- Jay Beattie.


Come on Jay, you can't list that hit by the bus as "**** happens". The bus driver recognised you and has been bragging since: "I collected me an attorney."


Luckily I wasn't arrested. The bus stopped; I got on and totally unloaded on the driver, who claimed that he was somehow pushed into me from the other lane by a "sports car." I'm sure I was captured on CCTV somewhere. That roadway is now a bus mall qua killing field for cyclist. It has a byzantine bike facility that jumps riders up and over curbs, in front of turning street cars and constantly turning cars -- with lots of slick, decorative bricks and drain grates just for added fun. https://www.flickr.com/photos/479119...n/photostream/ You launch off the curb in front of the turning street car, pedestrians, turning cars, charging rinos, etc., etc.

-- Jay Beattie.


Instead of obstructing our glorious gauleiter at every turn, you shoulda listened to Franki-boy, and ridden out confidently to control the crossing.

Andre Jute
This is where we all suddenly turn polite: "No, you first!"
  #25  
Old January 16th 20, 07:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default Hitting your head

sms wrote:
You may not like wearing a helmet, but the statistical evidence on
thebenefit of helmets is overwhelming and irrefutable.


It's really not. All kinds of selected-group studies have found wildly varying degrees of benefits for helmets, but whole-population data don't lie. Half of cyclists wear helmets now, but injury and fatality rates haven't changed since nobody wore them. That tells me what I need to know.

Helmets do offer protection because that's what they are designed to do. But if they don't offer an identifiable overall benefit, then they're doing something else that, on average, negates that protection.
  #26  
Old January 16th 20, 08:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,318
Default Hitting your head

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 10:40:23 AM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
sms wrote:
You may not like wearing a helmet, but the statistical evidence on
thebenefit of helmets is overwhelming and irrefutable.


It's really not. All kinds of selected-group studies have found wildly varying degrees of benefits for helmets, but whole-population data don't lie.. Half of cyclists wear helmets now, but injury and fatality rates haven't changed since nobody wore them. That tells me what I need to know.

Helmets do offer protection because that's what they are designed to do. But if they don't offer an identifiable overall benefit, then they're doing something else that, on average, negates that protection.


I was onw a bike path yesterday coming down off of a small rise at about 25 mph. There was a man on the right side of the road with a dog on a short leash. Well, it turned out that leash was on one of those rollers and the dog ran across the trail directly in front of me. I was forced off of the path off of a sharp drop off of the pavement and managed to get back on the path without falling before that side dropped into a ditch. They have gravel trails specifically for walking your dog on and yet the Asians continue to walk their dogs on the pavement blocking it both to cyclists and runners.

If I went down at that position it would have been at a high rate of speed and without any control. So I like the idea of the Bontrager Q-Cell helmet which is designed specifically to prevent concussions rather than skull fracture which you get as a second benefit of that design.
  #27  
Old January 16th 20, 08:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 401
Default Hitting your head

On 1/16/2020 10:15 AM, jbeattie wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:01:30 AM UTC-8, wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:10:32 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/15/2020 6:32 PM, Uncle Wiggly wrote:

I do believe that helmets do have one very positive effect - they change relatively light injuries from the most common accidents - single bike falls from rider error - from light injuries to little or much lighter injuries. Or instead of having painful scraping of an ear or scalp, these are eliminated. I see this as a reason to wear a helmet.

I see this as a reason not to crash. So far that tactic has worked very
well. I've literally never needed the protection of a helmet.

Admittedly, I've only been riding for 50-something years as an adult.
(Plus maybe 15 years as a kid.) We'll see how things go in my future.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank I consider myself as a competent and cautious bike rider and I thought I could prevent a crash if I was riding alone and could control my own risk. That believe came to an end with my crash last year into a woman that suddenly appeared out of the bushes from the dark onto a well lit bike path I was riding on. I was wearing conspicious clothes and running top af the bill lights. I took a hit on my head, broke two ribs and my collarbone, so it was a serious crash which I have no remembrance of. Result is that now I not only wear a helmet on group rides, off road rides or hilly/mounain rides but also on my evening rides in the dark. It took a while before my confidence was such that I leave my helmet off now and then on flat rides, alone in daylight. I'm not claiming anything and don't trust any statistic studies about helmets use and I don't care. I just do my own risk assesment and I discovered that there are people that do stupid things you can't anticipate on. I have no opinion about other peoples reasons to wear a helmet or not, maybe you should do the same.

Lou


Every crash is preventable, just don't ride your bike, and if you must ride, don't (1) ride in a group, (2) ride near cars or pedestrians, (3) ride in low traction environment like wet, snowy or icy roads. Riding at night is probably a bad idea, and never, ever ride a mountain bike on an actual trail. My last crash was dopey, but I wasn't doing anything wrong. My friend bobbled and ran into me -- which would be no big deal except that our bars got tangled. I bumped people a million times on the track, but hitting elbows or shoulders is different from getting equipment tangled up.

Frank also lives in this idyllic village where drivers waive and congratulate him on his fine dyno lighting. In downtown PDX, I'm dodging students and/or lunatic homeless people launching off the curb into the road willy-nilly. I was JRA in the middle of the lane on 9/11/01 and a bus hit me from behind. WTF? I wasn't hurt, but sh** happens even when you're riding in the middle of the lane and "controlling traffic."

-- Jay Beattie.



Do you have hipsters in PDX? They're all over the mountain here. Doing
wheelies down the mountain on fixies while texting their buddies and
grooving to their ear buds. I started handing out cards telling them
the cheap wine is free in Ohio.
  #28  
Old January 16th 20, 09:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Hitting your head

On 1/16/2020 3:01 AM, wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:10:32 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/15/2020 6:32 PM, Uncle Wiggly wrote:


I do believe that helmets do have one very positive effect - they change relatively light injuries from the most common accidents - single bike falls from rider error - from light injuries to little or much lighter injuries. Or instead of having painful scraping of an ear or scalp, these are eliminated. I see this as a reason to wear a helmet.


I see this as a reason not to crash. So far that tactic has worked very
well. I've literally never needed the protection of a helmet.

Admittedly, I've only been riding for 50-something years as an adult.
(Plus maybe 15 years as a kid.) We'll see how things go in my future.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank I consider myself as a competent and cautious bike rider and I thought I could prevent a crash if I was riding alone and could control my own risk. That believe came to an end with my crash last year into a woman that suddenly appeared out of the bushes from the dark onto a well lit bike path I was riding on. I was wearing conspicious clothes and running top af the bill lights. I took a hit on my head, broke two ribs and my collarbone, so it was a serious crash which I have no remembrance of. Result is that now I not only wear a helmet on group rides, off road rides or hilly/mounain rides but also on my evening rides in the dark. It took a while before my confidence was such that I leave my helmet off now and then on flat rides, alone in daylight. I'm not claiming anything and don't trust any statistic studies about helmets use and I don't care. I just do my own risk assesment and I discovered that there are people that do stupid things you can't anticipate on. I have no opinion about other peoples reasons to wear a helmet or not, maybe you should do the same.


Lou, I'm not directing any individual to wear or not wear a helmet. I'm
talking in general about the promotion or mandating of foam helmets as
normal equipment for all bike rides. That promotion (or in some cases
mandate) is now probably the most common safety recommendation for
bicyclists in the U.S., if not in the entire westernized world.

Is it justified? No, it's not, based on readily available data on
sources of traumatic brain injury, or on risk to the individual. The
propaganda commonly talks about cost to society of bike TBI, but bikes
cause less than 2% of TBI in America. Propaganda talks about death from
a simple fall, but well over ten million miles are ridden between bike
deaths, and helmets have had no detectable effect on bike deaths. The
propaganda talks about what _might_ happen, totally ignoring available
information on what actually _does_ happen.

Yes, Lou, you may have had a bad crash. But bicyclists are not the only
ones hurt by weird accidents. I have a friend who was walking in the
woods with my wife and me, who tripped on a hidden root and broke bones
and suffered a concussion. Another friend was walking for exercise with
friends during a lunch break, tripped on a sidewalk crack and fell on
her face so hard the ER people accused her husband of beating her. I
witnessed a pedestrian hit by a car hard enough that his body was tossed
in the air higher than the roof of the car, and who landed on his head
on the pavement. I have several friends who suffered TBI from riding in
cars. I have friends who have been injured while hiking, while working
around the home...

But in NONE of those incidents was anyone told "You should have worn a
helmet." There are no pedestrian helmet recommendations, ladder climbing
helmet recommendations, driving helmet recommendations. If you had been
jogging on that path and the woman had knocked you down, you would have
heard nothing about jogging or running helmets.

The bike helmet mania has been sold based on a myth of great risk, and
its been fostered by bicyclists treating every minor crash as almost
sure death. It totally ignores real world data. If the same sales pitch
were used for any medical intervention, governments would prosecute the
perpetrators for fraud - and most people would chide the individual
testimonies as naivete and delusion.

Perhaps the bigger question is: Why do so many people ignore data when
evaluating risk? Why are so many people susceptible to propaganda and
their own imagination? Is it just general innumeracy, or is it some
other failure of the education system?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old January 16th 20, 09:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Hitting your head

On 1/16/2020 10:15 AM, jbeattie wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 12:01:30 AM UTC-8, wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:10:32 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/15/2020 6:32 PM, Uncle Wiggly wrote:

I do believe that helmets do have one very positive effect - they change relatively light injuries from the most common accidents - single bike falls from rider error - from light injuries to little or much lighter injuries. Or instead of having painful scraping of an ear or scalp, these are eliminated. I see this as a reason to wear a helmet.

I see this as a reason not to crash. So far that tactic has worked very
well. I've literally never needed the protection of a helmet.

Admittedly, I've only been riding for 50-something years as an adult.
(Plus maybe 15 years as a kid.) We'll see how things go in my future.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank I consider myself as a competent and cautious bike rider and I thought I could prevent a crash if I was riding alone and could control my own risk. That believe came to an end with my crash last year into a woman that suddenly appeared out of the bushes from the dark onto a well lit bike path I was riding on. I was wearing conspicious clothes and running top af the bill lights. I took a hit on my head, broke two ribs and my collarbone, so it was a serious crash which I have no remembrance of. Result is that now I not only wear a helmet on group rides, off road rides or hilly/mounain rides but also on my evening rides in the dark. It took a while before my confidence was such that I leave my helmet off now and then on flat rides, alone in daylight. I'm not claiming anything and don't trust any statistic studies about helmets use and I don't care. I just do my own risk assesment and I discovered that there are people that do stupid things you can't anticipate on. I have no opinion about other peoples reasons to wear a helmet or not, maybe you should do the same.

Lou


Every crash is preventable, just don't ride your bike, and if you must ride, don't (1) ride in a group, (2) ride near cars or pedestrians, (3) ride in low traction environment like wet, snowy or icy roads. Riding at night is probably a bad idea, and never, ever ride a mountain bike on an actual trail. My last crash was dopey, but I wasn't doing anything wrong. My friend bobbled and ran into me -- which would be no big deal except that our bars got tangled. I bumped people a million times on the track, but hitting elbows or shoulders is different from getting equipment tangled up.

Frank also lives in this idyllic village where drivers waive and congratulate him on his fine dyno lighting. In downtown PDX, I'm dodging students and/or lunatic homeless people launching off the curb into the road willy-nilly. I was JRA in the middle of the lane on 9/11/01 and a bus hit me from behind. WTF? I wasn't hurt, but sh** happens even when you're riding in the middle of the lane and "controlling traffic."


**** seems to happen to some people far more than to other people.
Perhaps we should discuss why.

I do ride in groups. I do ride near cars and pedestrians. I do still
ride (at least some) in snow, and I've done it a lot over the decades. I
do ride at night, both for utility and recreation. I still ride my
mountain bike very occasionally, but I used to ride it quite a lot; and
yes, I tried lots of stuff on the mountain bike that caused me to fall.
But in none of those activities have I ever needed the protection of a
helmet, including back when I used to wear one.

The only head strike I ever suffered was as a teenager, way before bike
helmets existed. If I had worn one, it absolutely would have crushed. (I
fell directly backwards and hit the back of my head.) I'm sure the cry
would have been "YOUR HELMET SAVED YOUR LIFE!" But as it was, I got up
and continued riding and had nothing but minor pain; so in reality, a
helmet was not needed.

I believe that the activity of bicycling needs a lot less of "You should
wear a helmet in case you crash" and a WHOLE lot more of "Here's how you
should avoid crashes."

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old January 16th 20, 10:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Hitting your head

On 1/16/2020 2:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I like the idea of the Bontrager Q-Cell helmet which is designed specifically to prevent concussions rather than skull fracture...


"Designed to" is one of the most optimistic phrases used in advertising.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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