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Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 17th 03, 08:21 PM
B. Lafferty
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Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days

I know of two experiences with Bianchi warranties, my own and a friend's. I
had a Bianchi frame bought in the late 1980s for $300 (Columbus steel) that
cracked in the bb area two years later. The frame had a lifetime warranty
and I got a replacement frame with no problems. In fact, they offered me a
strait replacement with one model or, for an additional $50, a frame made
out of Tange Prestige. I took the latter, rode it for 10 years. My
neighbor bought it and still rides it nearly every day ( I wish he would
clean it---it hurts to see it).

A friend bought the Pantani model AL frame in 1999 and it cracked about 1
year later. Bianchi replaced it with no problem but not with the same frame
which was out of production. The frame he got was quite similar but was
reinforced in the previous problem area.

Bianchi will stand behind their warranty, no question about that. If they
gave you a one year warranty it was because it was a very light racing frame
with a short life expectancy. Next time check the warranty and decide how
long you intend to use the frame.



"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
news
Please read the information below and make your own conclusion as to
why you must never buy a frame from Bianchi! Would Bianchi still act
in this way if the defects had resulted in personal injury?



Dear Sir,

On 1 December 2001 I purchased a Bianchi Boron Frame Size 58 cm from
Van Herwerden Wielersport in the Netherlands. I have used this frame
during the Summer months (March to October) resulting in a total of 13
or 14 months use. Recently (end of August ) the dealer from whom I
bought the frame established that it had cracked in at least two
places.



The frame was returned to Italy via the Dutch importer. After several
weeks I received notice that Bianchi is not prepared to replace the
frame simply saying that it is outside the one year guarantee period.



I am naturally highly dissatisfied with this response: you may chose
only to provide a one year guarantee (which suggests that Bianchi has
no confidence in its own products) but that does no exclude you from
the responsibility of providing a product which satisfies what can be
reasonably expected of it. It can reasonably be expected that a frame
of this supposed quality will last 5 years.



As this particular frame has lasted about 20% of that period your
responsibility is to refund 80% of its value or, as a gesture of
goodwill, to provide a replacement frame of similar quality. Your
abject failure to even discuss this possibility suggests that you
consider that a frame which lasts 366 days has fulfilled Bianchi's
obligations to its client. I can assure you that this is not the case
under Dutch law.



I expect better from Bianchi: your lack of preparedness to replace
this frame or provide an adequate refund is a complete desertion of
your responsibility and has left the Dutch dealer (who has been more
than reasonable) out of pocket.



May I suggest that you include a statement in your publicity campaign
in the Netherlands (To be faster you only need an extra gear) to the
effect that you expect certain models of your range to last 365 days
only.

I feel it only pertinent to add to the message below that the dealer
from whom I bought the frame has previously had poor experiences with
the service from Bianchi in these sort of cases and has decided no
longer to stock or sell Bianchi frames. He strongly advises against
the purchase of your products: as the largest dealer in our region
this will surely influence your image in the whole of the Benelux. In
the light of this I suggest that it really is time for your company to
revise its position regarding service (or as it currently is, lack of
service).




I expect the courtesy of a reply containing an adequate proposal,



Yours faithfully,





Justin Lewis.



Ads
  #12  
Old September 18th 03, 02:13 AM
Dashi Toshii
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Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days


"William Belaforous Kelly" wrote in message
. ..

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
xxx- The problem
probably lies with new light steel used in the 'next generation' steel
bikes, although if the OP posted this to rbt he'd probably have been
told to get an oversized lugged steel frame that weights 5 lbs.
BRBR

Or a better made steel frameset that weighs about 3.6 pounds. No steel

frameset
we see these days, lugged or not weighs 5 pounds. Mine is lugged and

weighs
3.8
pounds. Another misrepresentation of modern steel.





I make furniture. The only material I use is stainless steel. Despite its
expense and difficulty to machine, it's the best material for this
application (appearance and durability).


Bull**** snipped..

This guy is one of the biggest morons that I have seen post to RBR, he's an
expert on building frames because he makes furniture, yeah, right!

Dashii


  #13  
Old September 18th 03, 03:22 AM
Kurgan Gringioni
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days


"Dashi Toshii" wrote in message
...

"William Belaforous Kelly" wrote in message
. ..

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
xxx- The problem
probably lies with new light steel used in the 'next generation' steel
bikes, although if the OP posted this to rbt he'd probably have been
told to get an oversized lugged steel frame that weights 5 lbs.
BRBR

Or a better made steel frameset that weighs about 3.6 pounds. No steel

frameset
we see these days, lugged or not weighs 5 pounds. Mine is lugged and

weighs
3.8
pounds. Another misrepresentation of modern steel.





I make furniture. The only material I use is stainless steel. Despite its
expense and difficulty to machine, it's the best material for this
application (appearance and durability).


Bull**** snipped..

This guy is one of the biggest morons that I have seen post to RBR, he's an
expert on building frames because he makes furniture, yeah, right!




That's me. I posted under that name so PC would see it.

Solidworks is a solid modeling program, used mostly by mechanical engineers.
Cosmos is a finite-element analysis plug-in. That's what engineers use to
evaluate their designs before prototyping.

I have access to those programs because my friends are mechanical engineers.
Steel, when evaluated purely for stiffness to weight ratio, doesn't perform
as well as the other 3 materials. That is a fact.

There are other factors to consider when choosing frame material, some of
which are subjective (therefore not evaluateable by finite element analysis).
It's also debateable whether the 1 lb. (or less) difference matters to the
average rider. But those are the subjective criteria - the objective criteria
(stiffness to weight ratio) is not really disputable. The computer doesn't
lie (unless the user screws up the parameters).


  #14  
Old September 18th 03, 04:01 AM
Stewart Fleming
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days



Dashi Toshii wrote:


This guy is one of the biggest morons that I have seen post to RBR, he's an
expert on building frames because he makes furniture, yeah, right!


I was just wondering what sleeping on a stainless steel bed would be like...

  #15  
Old September 18th 03, 04:22 AM
Nick Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi's are a fine brand and I love them


"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
news
Please read the information below and make your own conclusion as to
why you must never buy a frame from Bianchi! Would Bianchi still act
in this way if the defects had resulted in personal injury?


This is so lame. Nobody cares, and if they did care, why would anyone take
your word for it when you publish this in a forum that Bianchi can't reply
to? You got the exact result anyone reasonable would expect. Granted, most
others would say, "darn", right after my friggin' warranty expired" and that
would be the end of it. In fact, things like that have happened to me and I
am sure just about everyone at one time or another. In fact, I am typing
this on a 13 month old notebook that has a few problems that I should have
had repaired, but the warranty just expired a month ago. Computers are
typically expected to last about 3 years. Warrantys are typically from 90
days to 3 years. You think I should be able to get it repaired any time
within 3 years because that is the typical life expectancy? What is the
difference between your situation and mine (besides the fact that you
already got half of your money refunded)? According to you, a warranty
should be regulated by the government. And you have the nerve to call
Americans letigious? You are not a reasonable person.




Dear Sir,

On 1 December 2001 I purchased a Bianchi Boron Frame Size 58 cm from
Van Herwerden Wielersport in the Netherlands. I have used this frame
during the Summer months (March to October) resulting in a total of 13
or 14 months use. Recently (end of August ) the dealer from whom I
bought the frame established that it had cracked in at least two
places.



The frame was returned to Italy via the Dutch importer. After several
weeks I received notice that Bianchi is not prepared to replace the
frame simply saying that it is outside the one year guarantee period.



I am naturally highly dissatisfied with this response: you may chose
only to provide a one year guarantee (which suggests that Bianchi has
no confidence in its own products) but that does no exclude you from
the responsibility of providing a product which satisfies what can be
reasonably expected of it. It can reasonably be expected that a frame
of this supposed quality will last 5 years.



As this particular frame has lasted about 20% of that period your
responsibility is to refund 80% of its value or, as a gesture of
goodwill, to provide a replacement frame of similar quality. Your
abject failure to even discuss this possibility suggests that you
consider that a frame which lasts 366 days has fulfilled Bianchi's
obligations to its client. I can assure you that this is not the case
under Dutch law.



I expect better from Bianchi: your lack of preparedness to replace
this frame or provide an adequate refund is a complete desertion of
your responsibility and has left the Dutch dealer (who has been more
than reasonable) out of pocket.



May I suggest that you include a statement in your publicity campaign
in the Netherlands (To be faster you only need an extra gear) to the
effect that you expect certain models of your range to last 365 days
only.

I feel it only pertinent to add to the message below that the dealer
from whom I bought the frame has previously had poor experiences with
the service from Bianchi in these sort of cases and has decided no
longer to stock or sell Bianchi frames. He strongly advises against
the purchase of your products: as the largest dealer in our region
this will surely influence your image in the whole of the Benelux. In
the light of this I suggest that it really is time for your company to
revise its position regarding service (or as it currently is, lack of
service).




I expect the courtesy of a reply containing an adequate proposal,



Yours faithfully,





Justin Lewis.



  #16  
Old September 18th 03, 05:19 AM
Runkle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days


"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
news
Please read the information below and make your own conclusion as to
why you must never buy a frame from Bianchi! Would Bianchi still act
in this way if the defects had resulted in personal injury?



Dear Sir,

On 1 December 2001 I purchased a Bianchi Boron Frame Size 58 cm from
Van Herwerden Wielersport in the Netherlands. I have used this frame
during the Summer months (March to October) resulting in a total of 13
or 14 months use. Recently (end of August ) the dealer from whom I
bought the frame established that it had cracked in at least two
places.


The warranty period begins the day the frame was purchased. Whether you
ride the frame or just hang it on the wall, the warranty time clock is still
ticking. According to your dates, the frame lasted approximately 600 days.

Your subject line is misleading and you are full of crap...I'm glad you are
not my customer.


  #17  
Old September 18th 03, 05:45 AM
Kurgan Gringioni
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days


"Stewart Fleming" wrote in message
news:1063854100.907638@ns...


Dashi Toshii wrote:


This guy is one of the biggest morons that I have seen post to RBR, he's

an
expert on building frames because he makes furniture, yeah, right!


I was just wondering what sleeping on a stainless steel bed would be

like...



it's a platform bed, you provide your own matress.


  #18  
Old September 18th 03, 07:04 AM
Justin Lewis
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Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:19:30 GMT, "Runkle" wrote:


"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
news
Please read the information below and make your own conclusion as to
why you must never buy a frame from Bianchi! Would Bianchi still act
in this way if the defects had resulted in personal injury?



Dear Sir,

On 1 December 2001 I purchased a Bianchi Boron Frame Size 58 cm from
Van Herwerden Wielersport in the Netherlands. I have used this frame
during the Summer months (March to October) resulting in a total of 13
or 14 months use. Recently (end of August ) the dealer from whom I
bought the frame established that it had cracked in at least two
places.


The warranty period begins the day the frame was purchased. Whether you
ride the frame or just hang it on the wall, the warranty time clock is still
ticking. According to your dates, the frame lasted approximately 600 days.

Your subject line is misleading and you are full of crap...I'm glad you are
not my customer.

I would echo the gladness at not being your customer: as I have stated
even the Dutch dealer assumes that a frame should be god for at least
three seasons.

The corolary of your reasoning, if it can be called that, is that you
believe that a producer can limit his or her liability to the period
of the warranty. A defect which occurs one day after the guarantee
period is purely the responsibility of the client, in your view.

I can assure you this is not the case in both the European and
American legal systems: were a frame that you sell to break and injure
a rider one day after the end of the guarantee period I assume that
you would display the attitude that is so evident above. I hope so
because, as is the case with Eddy Merckx recently, you would be found
liable for both the defect and the personal injury. The courts will
assume that a frame which breaks is defective and the onus of proving
any incorrect use would be upon you.

Whilst you may not approve of my subject line (perhaps a little
emotive) there is certainly truth in it. Your approach to service is,
however, perhaps worthy of your own terminology.

Try and answer the substantive issues raised in this case: $2700 for a
frame which lasted one and half seasons with no acceptance of
liability on behalf of the manufacturer. Reasonable? Good for its
reputation: I do not think so. The dealer from whom I bought it no
longer deals with bianchi, advises all his clients to avoid them and I
am a reasonably well-known rider who will make very apparrent that no
rider in Holland should consider such a frame.

The dealer, in contrast to your approach, has refunded half the
purchase price. I am pleased i am not your customer. Go away and learn
something about service and responsibility.
  #19  
Old September 18th 03, 07:19 AM
Kurgan Gringioni
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days


"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
...


snip, snip, snip






Dumbass -


We don't care about your bike that broke after the warranty expired. Please
complain elsewhere.


Thank you very much for your cooperation and have a nice day.


  #20  
Old September 18th 03, 09:05 AM
Donald Munro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days

Dashi Toshii wrote:
This guy is one of the biggest morons that I have seen post to RBR, he's an
expert on building frames because he makes furniture, yeah, right!


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

That's me. I posted under that name so PC would see it.

Solidworks is a solid modeling program, used mostly by mechanical engineers.
Cosmos is a finite-element analysis plug-in. That's what engineers use to
evaluate their designs before prototyping.

I have access to those programs because my friends are mechanical engineers.
Steel, when evaluated purely for stiffness to weight ratio, doesn't perform
as well as the other 3 materials. That is a fact.

There are other factors to consider when choosing frame material, some of
which are subjective (therefore not evaluateable by finite element analysis).
It's also debateable whether the 1 lb. (or less) difference matters to the
average rider. But those are the subjective criteria - the objective criteria
(stiffness to weight ratio) is not really disputable. The computer doesn't
lie (unless the user screws up the parameters).


You should cross post this to rbt if you really want to liven
proceedings up (and challenge the '2 guns' thread for number of posts).

 




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