Negative press

"pjclarkesq" skrev...
I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the
Editor" of some local news papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can
get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a hell of alot more
courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes
they each wear.

Well cardrivers always rag on bicycles and pedestrians.
Pedestrians complain about cars and bicycles... etc.

That being said I see a lot of bicycles blowing red lights (in Copenhagen)
and violating other trafficlaws. A large part of them are either
bike messengers or people out excercising (as in lycra and roadbike/MTB.)
But these are probably a lost cause anyway no matter how many
new restrictions the council comes up with. It wont deter them.

cheers
Mikael

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:04:50 GMT, "Dave Harney"
wrote:

The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
to change the law to get bikes off the roads.

Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
dubious situation.


Maybe you can get some meber of your club (preferably retired - time
consuming) to sit besides the ominous crossing and do a real count of
the bikers and their behaviour. So you have some numbers for yourself
together with a witness. BEst thing would be to do it for at least a
whole week so you can check for different behavior on weekends etc.
My dad-in-law did this and it provided us with a lot of ammo.

Greetings

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:04:50 GMT, "Dave Harney"
wrote:

The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
to change the law to get bikes off the roads.

Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
dubious situation.


Maybe you can get some meber of your club (preferably retired - time
consuming) to sit besides the ominous crossing and do a real count of
the bikers and their behaviour. So you have some numbers for yourself
together with a witness. BEst thing would be to do it for at least a
whole week so you can check for different behavior on weekends etc.
My dad-in-law did this and it provided us with a lot of ammo.

Greetings

I am a staunch advocate of cyclists observing traffic laws and I would
suggest trying to present compelling evidence that would encourage law
enforcement to monitor the area that you are referring to and
encourage them to ticket the offending cyclists.

Lewis.

***************************

"Dave Harney" wrote in message ...
Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance.
The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?

----------------------------------------------------------
September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper
since 1883"



Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.



Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.



By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff



Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still
fail to heed local stop signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was
hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling across Western Avenue without
stopping.



Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style
bikers than defiant teenagers.



Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the
ditch to avoid careless cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the
intersection of Terminal and East River roads.



Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection
outlet counting the number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping.
Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road without stopping, or even looking to
see if any cars are coming Bartel said.



"They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys
in the spandex pants and the funny shoes that want to look like Lance
Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large the majority of the
people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand
miles they can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north
on some endless rail line, but they're not."



The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road
from unmarked to 35 mph, partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.



Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the
trail, but even the stop signs on the roads.



"There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck
isn't going to stop, it can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It'
s asinine."



The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.



Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring
he issues standard warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway
C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port Washington, regularly garnering
complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other rude biker
behaviors.



The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their
ride in Mequon, McCormick said.



"We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don
't obey signals and so forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing
issue for several years with us, so as soon as we get the first complaint of
the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they come up
and let them know any complaints will result in citations."



There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly
because the warnings have worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to
ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed by a deputy.



McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols
along Terminal and East River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from
residents or the county.



County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints
about bicyclists neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River
roads intersection, but said he has observed infractions himself and is
aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of the trail.



The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road
at that stretch in the town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington,
and Struck said preliminary indications are favorable for the first grant.



The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail
to be taken off-road at the midpoint along terminal between East River Road
and Highway W. It would continue over I-43 to where it picks up as an
off-road trail now.



Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail
lets out onto Terminal Road would remain largely unchanged.



Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday
regarding possible enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.



------------------------------------

I am a staunch advocate of cyclists observing traffic laws and I would
suggest trying to present compelling evidence that would encourage law
enforcement to monitor the area that you are referring to and
encourage them to ticket the offending cyclists.

Lewis.

***************************

"Dave Harney" wrote in message ...
Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance.
The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?

----------------------------------------------------------
September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper
since 1883"



Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.



Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.



By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff



Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still
fail to heed local stop signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was
hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling across Western Avenue without
stopping.



Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style
bikers than defiant teenagers.



Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the
ditch to avoid careless cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the
intersection of Terminal and East River roads.



Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection
outlet counting the number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping.
Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road without stopping, or even looking to
see if any cars are coming Bartel said.



"They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys
in the spandex pants and the funny shoes that want to look like Lance
Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large the majority of the
people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand
miles they can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north
on some endless rail line, but they're not."



The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road
from unmarked to 35 mph, partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.



Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the
trail, but even the stop signs on the roads.



"There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck
isn't going to stop, it can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It'
s asinine."



The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.



Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring
he issues standard warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway
C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port Washington, regularly garnering
complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other rude biker
behaviors.



The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their
ride in Mequon, McCormick said.



"We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don
't obey signals and so forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing
issue for several years with us, so as soon as we get the first complaint of
the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they come up
and let them know any complaints will result in citations."



There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly
because the warnings have worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to
ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed by a deputy.



McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols
along Terminal and East River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from
residents or the county.



County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints
about bicyclists neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River
roads intersection, but said he has observed infractions himself and is
aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of the trail.



The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road
at that stretch in the town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington,
and Struck said preliminary indications are favorable for the first grant.



The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail
to be taken off-road at the midpoint along terminal between East River Road
and Highway W. It would continue over I-43 to where it picks up as an
off-road trail now.



Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail
lets out onto Terminal Road would remain largely unchanged.



Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday
regarding possible enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.



------------------------------------

Even handed enforcement of existing law? There are more motorists running
stops and creating a greater hazard than cyclists. Do they complain so of
their own failings? I think not.


"Dave Harney" wrote in message
...
Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
distance.
The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?

Even handed enforcement of existing law? There are more motorists running
stops and creating a greater hazard than cyclists. Do they complain so of
their own failings? I think not.


"Dave Harney" wrote in message
...
Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
distance.
The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?

Is there any way the meeting of the trail and the road could be
redesigned so that the trail merged with the road, (like an entrance
ramp) rather than coming to a T? Lots of times you have a trail
coming up parrallel next to a road and then the trail does a 90
degree turn to T intersect with the road. I suppose that makes sense
if half the cyclists are turning one way and half the other at the
road, but this sounds like most would continue in one direction on
the road to pick up the trail again later. In that case, a merge
intersection might be better.

John Riley



--
--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Is there any way the meeting of the trail and the road could be
redesigned so that the trail merged with the road, (like an entrance
ramp) rather than coming to a T? Lots of times you have a trail
coming up parrallel next to a road and then the trail does a 90
degree turn to T intersect with the road. I suppose that makes sense
if half the cyclists are turning one way and half the other at the
road, but this sounds like most would continue in one direction on
the road to pick up the trail again later. In that case, a merge
intersection might be better.

John Riley



--
--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection
with a stopsign for cyclists. The funny thing was that there is only
one or two intersections with stopsign for cyclists in the whole 1
million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as
example.