Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program

On Nov 13, 2:30 pm, dgk wrote:
snip
I think, as things worsen in the USA, you may get to live under real
facism. I sincerely hope not.

You mean you don't think we are already in a fascist state? The seeds
for fascism were sown back in the 19th century in the US when
corporations were upgraded to people status, then heavily fertilized
when money was given the status of speech in political races in the
late 20th century.

On Nov 13, 9:30*am, dgk wrote:
Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires
that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too
selfish for that approach to work.

Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state
controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left.

Now, see, that makes perfect sense: under communism,
the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of
production. Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp-
orations controls all means of production. And since it is
illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is
created a perfect distinction between the two systems. &
since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup-
pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread &
Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right?

Per Opus:
You mean you don't think we are already in a fascist state? The seeds
for fascism were sown back in the 19th century in the US when
corporations were upgraded to people status, then heavily fertilized
when money was given the status of speech in political races in the
late 20th century.

Seems to me that, in the absence of some countervailing power,
it's inevitable.

If there's such a thing as natural laws of power, one of them is
that power tends to coalesce/concentrate. Kind of the opposite
of the universe's tendency towards entropy.

Bigger corporations can buy more legislators more easily - and
then get them to change the laws to allow yet bigger
corporations.

Yeah, industry associations can exert influence too.... but it
seems to me like getting the best laws that money can buy becomes
more efficient the few players there are.
--
PeteCresswell

dgk wrote:
Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires
that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too
selfish for that approach to work.
Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state
controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left.

Norman wrote:
Now, see, that makes perfect sense: under communism,
the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of
production. Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp-
orations controls all means of production. And since it is
illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is
created a perfect distinction between the two systems. &
since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup-
pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread &
Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right?

From Bert Penn:
"Under capitalism, it's man against man. Under communism
it's the other way around!"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Opus:
You mean you don't think we are already in a fascist state? The seeds
for fascism were sown back in the 19th century in the US when
corporations were upgraded to people status, then heavily fertilized
when money was given the status of speech in political races in the
late 20th century.

Seems to me that, in the absence of some countervailing power,
it's inevitable.

If there's such a thing as natural laws of power, one of them is
that power tends to coalesce/concentrate. Kind of the opposite
of the universe's tendency towards entropy.

Bigger corporations can buy more legislators more easily - and
then get them to change the laws to allow yet bigger
corporations.

Yeah, industry associations can exert influence too.... but it
seems to me like getting the best laws that money can buy becomes
more efficient the few players there are.

Since you bring SEIU into it, does Stern ride a bike at all?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:10:23 -0800 (PST), Norman
wrote:

On Nov 13, 9:30*am, dgk wrote:
Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires
that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too
selfish for that approach to work.

Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state
controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left.

Now, see, that makes perfect sense: under communism,
the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of
production. Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp-
orations controls all means of production. And since it is
illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is
created a perfect distinction between the two systems. &
since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup-
pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread &
Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right?


It's illegal for corporations to have human ownership?

On Nov 13, 3:35*pm, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:10:23 -0800 (PST), Norman

wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:30*am, dgk wrote:
Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires
that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too
selfish for that approach to work.

Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state
controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left.

Now, see, that makes perfect sense: *under communism,
the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of
production. *Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp-
orations controls all means of production. *And since it is
illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is
created a perfect distinction between the two systems. *&
since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup-
pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread &
Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right?

It's illegal for corporations to have human ownership?

Yes, & that is why corporations influencing government
is nothing at all like people acting in concert influencing
government.

By the way, my favourite hobby is trying to nail jello to the
wall. How about you?

Per AMuzi:
Since you bring SEIU into it, does Stern ride a bike at all?

That one went right over my head.

Service Employees International Union? Howard Stern?

Don't think so.... -)

But what/who?
--
PeteCresswell

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:24:05 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
. ..
[...]
But, but, let's just say, just suppose. that a commie pinko actually
did win a democratic election. Can we then nulify the election because
the capitalist lost?

What is this animus against capitalism? All that will ever happen to you
under capitalism is that you may starve to death. Under most other forms
of
governance, you will be quashed like a bug if you dissent in the
slightest.
Yes, I know, capitalism is merely a form of an economic arrangement, but
it
insures that you will at least be free. Most socialisms will not allow you
to be free. They may or may not feed you, but you will either tow the line
or you will be killed.

Communism simply doesn't work. It has been tried over and over under every
imaginable kind of people, and it simply doesn't work. Why? Because of
human
nature. Alas, if you want communism to work, you will have to redesign the
human species from the genes on up.

Sorry DGK, but Marx, Lenin and Stalin were all wrong. If I had to choose
between fascism and communism, I would choose fascism. But they were both
ideologies of the left and straight from the Devil Himself!

Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires
that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too
selfish for that approach to work.

Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state
controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left.

As I recall, Communism was to evolve in an industrialized nation like
ours, not a backwards agrarian state like Russia.

I think, as things worsen in the USA, you may get to live under real
facism. I sincerely hope not.

Fascism belongs to the left just as surely as does communism. Hitler came to
power under the auspices of the Nazis', a form of socialism.

Ideologies of the right began with the divine right of kings, not with
republican forms of governance. This is best represented by Louis XIV of
France, also known as the Sun King.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

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Nazism, known officially in German as National Socialism[1][2][3][4]
(German: Nationalsozialismus), is the totalitarian ideology and practices of
the Nazi Party or National Socialist German Workers' Party under Adolf
Hitler, and the policies adopted by the dictatorial government of Nazi
Germany from 1933 to 1945.[5][6][7][8]

Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it
incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis
formed most of their alliances on the right.[9] The Nazis were one of
several historical groups that used the term National Socialism to describe
themselves, and in the 1920s they became the largest such group. The Nazi
Party presented its program in the 25 point National Socialist Program in
1920. Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism,
Pan-Germanism, racism, collectivism,[10][11] eugenics, antisemitism,
anti-communism, totalitarianism and opposition to economic liberalism and
political liberalism.[11][12][13]

In the 1930s, Nazism was not a monolithic movement, but rather a (mainly
German) combination of various ideologies and philosophies which centered
around nationalism, anti-communism, traditionalism and the importance of the
ethnostate. Groups such as Strasserism and Black Front were part of the
early Nazi movement. Their motivations were triggered over anger about the
Treaty of Versailles, and what they considered to have been a
Jewish/communist conspiracy to humiliate Germany at the end of the World War
I. Germany's post-war ills were critical to the formation of the ideology
and its criticisms of the post-war Weimar Republic. The Nazi Party came to
power in Germany in 1933.

In response to the instability created by the Great Depression, the Nazis
sought a Third Way managed economy that was neither capitalism nor
communism.[14][15] Nazi rule effectively ended on May 7, 1945, V-E Day, when
the Nazis unconditionally surrendered to the Allied Powers, who took over
Germany's administration until Germany could form its own democratic
government.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
Since you bring SEIU into it, does Stern ride a bike at all?

That one went right over my head.

Service Employees International Union? Howard Stern?

Don't think so.... -)

But what/who?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Stern.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.