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#401
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
On 3/13/2011 9:21 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Peter considered Sun, 13 Mar 2011 18:18:26 -0400 the perfect time to write: On 3/13/2011 2:08 PM, Dan O wrote: On Mar 13, 10:43 am, Duane wrote: On 3/11/2011 8:00 PM, T m Sherm n _ wrote: On 3/11/2011 3:14 PM, Duane Hebert wrote: Installing bicycle lanes leads to their mandatory usage, de facto or legally enforced. I haven't seen this but I'll take your word for it. In that case, we should fight against mandatory usage of bike lane laws. Well, it's a tough sell to the non-cycling majority who would probably just scowl about wanting to have our cake and eat it to - at their expense, of course. The law here requiring use of available bike lane includes a number of exceptions - including one for avoiding debris, which seems to be a blanket exception leaving it totally at my discretion since *every* bike lane collects debris. However... One morning after the snow and ice hit us, and the roads had been heavily "sanded", I was riding in on a four-lane + bike lanes road. All the "sand" and other debris had been pushed over to the bike lane, the entire width of which was a good half-inch deep with black, wet muck. The stripe was even covered. So I was bout a foot or so out into the right traffic lane. A big truck came up ehind me and honked. His left lane was empty. I proceeded straight on, as far right as practicable. He honked again, so I turned my head and waved him around. He continued to follow, but closed in and honked some more. Eventually the stripe sort of emerged from the much, so I drifted right over the stripe, riding *very* cautiously in the muck. He buzzed past - hinking some more. This is what Tom meant by defacto requirement - motorists *expect* us to use the bike lane, are clueless to the issues that the exceptions in law at least provide for, and will agressively act out their hostility to try and force us into them. So flip him off& keep riding. What do you do when they pull up alongside and then deliberately change lanes into the side of you, to FORCE you into the bike lane? I'll let you know when that happens, if ever. |
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#402
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
On 3/13/2011 10:21 PM, Tēm ShermĒn °_° wrote:
On 3/13/2011 8:31 PM, Phil W Lee wrote: Nate considered Sun, 13 Mar 2011 20:53:44 -0400 the perfect time to write: On 03/13/2011 08:33 PM, Dan O wrote: On Mar 13, 5:09 pm, Duane wrote: On 3/13/2011 6:55 PM, T m Sherm n _ wrote: On 3/13/2011 5:50 PM, Duane Hebert wrote: On 3/13/2011 6:18 PM, Peter Cole wrote: snip So flip him off& keep riding. Works for me. Seriously, as I posted above, how is it that the same people urging taking the lane and ignoring the upset caused the motorist by having to slow down, seem to be the same people saying that if we have bike facilities, motorists may think that we belong only in bike facilities. BTW I would think it more of an issue with separate facilities then bike lanes. if I'm on a road with a lane marked for my bike, I'm likely in it anyway unless there are obstacles. The people who are already afraid of motor vehicles are not going to deal well with intimidating behavior, such as speeding up and braking at the last second behind the cyclist, or pulling alongside, then swerving towards the cyclist. Not sure what you mean. I'm with the flip him off and keep riding idea. Doesn't matter to me what he's upset about. Besides, your description of intimidating behavior sounds like a normal day on the road. At least some days... Motorist hostility abounds. This will never change until laws and transportation policy (including the economics of private motor vehicle tranport - subsidies allowed for those in need) change to pummel the car culture into submission. I think that's just a simplification of a more widespread issue with US culture, which is that people in general are rude and tend not to think things through very much. It just so happens that the vast majority of people who are old enough to drive use a motor vehicle as their primary means of transportation. They'd still be rude if they were walking on a sidewalk. Generally, it's less of a problem without the perception of anonymity and invulnerability that being hidden inside a car engenders. And it isn't just in the US - it's anywhere that doesn't have the civilising influence of presumed liability laws (which personally, I don't believe go far enough even where they exist). However, the US has a popular culture that glorifies solving problems with violence. In the US we kill each other, in Japan they kill themselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan |
#403
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Sherman's Ever-changing Subjects (AKA Thread Titles)
On 3/13/2011 11:34 PM, Dan O wrote:
Anything that lets you type in the message body ought to let you insert quote delimiters. Sure but it's pretty annoying when you have long lived threads to keep track of who wrote what. (couldn't happen here but still...) With the last update of WLM that removed the auto quote, I switched to Thunderbird. |
#404
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
On 3/14/2011 2:06 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Duane considered Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:51:50 -0400 the perfect time to write: snip What do you do when they pull up alongside and then deliberately change lanes into the side of you, to FORCE you into the bike lane? What do you do when the do that and there is no bike lane? When there is no bike lane, they don't seem to feel any entitlement to force you to use it. My point is that some motorists feel entitlement to the road. I've had more cars pass too close to me when I wasn't in a lane than when I was. I've had as many yell at me to get off the road when there wasn't any where to get as well. Some people are idiots. Look, I don't want to make it sound like it's a daily battle around here. Most motorists are too polite, if anything. The clowns that aren't don't seem to be affected by bike lanes or not though. They're just clowns. |
#405
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
On 3/13/2011 10:11 PM, Tēm ShermĒn °_° wrote:
On 3/13/2011 8:59 PM, Duane Hebert wrote: [...] Don't get me wrong. I don't want bike lanes or paths everywhere. Only where they can be useful. Mostly on busy roads in congested cities. Apparently this attitude is untenable to some. Shrug snip How about a wider than normal inner lane with a lower speed limit? Sure. Not sure when that would happen though. |
#406
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
Duane Hebert writes:
On 3/14/2011 2:06 AM, Phil W Lee wrote: Duane considered Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:51:50 -0400 the perfect time to write: snip What do you do when they pull up alongside and then deliberately change lanes into the side of you, to FORCE you into the bike lane? What do you do when the do that and there is no bike lane? When there is no bike lane, they don't seem to feel any entitlement to force you to use it. My point is that some motorists feel entitlement to the road. I've had more cars pass too close to me when I wasn't in a lane than when I was. I've had as many yell at me to get off the road when there wasn't any where to get as well. Some people are idiots. Look, I don't want to make it sound like it's a daily battle around here. Most motorists are too polite, if anything. The clowns that aren't don't seem to be affected by bike lanes or not though. They're just clowns. If there IS a bike lane then use it. Simple. |
#407
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
On 3/14/2011 9:39 AM, Simon Lewis wrote:
Duane writes: On 3/14/2011 2:06 AM, Phil W Lee wrote: Duane considered Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:51:50 -0400 the perfect time to write: snip What do you do when they pull up alongside and then deliberately change lanes into the side of you, to FORCE you into the bike lane? What do you do when the do that and there is no bike lane? When there is no bike lane, they don't seem to feel any entitlement to force you to use it. My point is that some motorists feel entitlement to the road. I've had more cars pass too close to me when I wasn't in a lane than when I was. I've had as many yell at me to get off the road when there wasn't any where to get as well. Some people are idiots. Look, I don't want to make it sound like it's a daily battle around here. Most motorists are too polite, if anything. The clowns that aren't don't seem to be affected by bike lanes or not though. They're just clowns. If there IS a bike lane then use it. Simple. Seems simple to me. |
#408
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OT - Moving to Japan
Per Nate Nagel:
Um, there are some things about Japanese culture that I'm NOT completely nuts about... As a nation, they'd score some points if they'd own up to Nanking. -- PeteCresswell |
#409
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
On Mar 14, 9:49*am, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 3/14/2011 9:39 AM, Simon Lewis wrote: If there IS a bike lane then use it. Simple. Seems simple to me. Sure. Use this one: http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...rd-to-imagine/ Use this one: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.me...h/whitgift.jpg Use http://tinyurl.com/6kzydms Use the ones in the photos at http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl.../uastripes.htm Don't worry. Don't bother to think. Follow the stripes, wherever they lead. It's so simple! - Frank Krygowski |
#410
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What Motorist Advocacy Does For Cycling
Peter Cole wrote:
On 3/13/2011 10:21 PM, Tēm ShermĒn °_° wrote: On 3/13/2011 8:31 PM, Phil W Lee wrote: Nate considered Sun, 13 Mar 2011 20:53:44 -0400 the perfect time to write: On 03/13/2011 08:33 PM, Dan O wrote: On Mar 13, 5:09 pm, Duane wrote: On 3/13/2011 6:55 PM, T m Sherm n _ wrote: On 3/13/2011 5:50 PM, Duane Hebert wrote: On 3/13/2011 6:18 PM, Peter Cole wrote: snip So flip him off& keep riding. Works for me. Seriously, as I posted above, how is it that the same people urging taking the lane and ignoring the upset caused the motorist by having to slow down, seem to be the same people saying that if we have bike facilities, motorists may think that we belong only in bike facilities. BTW I would think it more of an issue with separate facilities then bike lanes. if I'm on a road with a lane marked for my bike, I'm likely in it anyway unless there are obstacles. The people who are already afraid of motor vehicles are not going to deal well with intimidating behavior, such as speeding up and braking at the last second behind the cyclist, or pulling alongside, then swerving towards the cyclist. Not sure what you mean. I'm with the flip him off and keep riding idea. Doesn't matter to me what he's upset about. Besides, your description of intimidating behavior sounds like a normal day on the road. At least some days... Motorist hostility abounds. This will never change until laws and transportation policy (including the economics of private motor vehicle tranport - subsidies allowed for those in need) change to pummel the car culture into submission. I think that's just a simplification of a more widespread issue with US culture, which is that people in general are rude and tend not to think things through very much. It just so happens that the vast majority of people who are old enough to drive use a motor vehicle as their primary means of transportation. They'd still be rude if they were walking on a sidewalk. Generally, it's less of a problem without the perception of anonymity and invulnerability that being hidden inside a car engenders. And it isn't just in the US - it's anywhere that doesn't have the civilising influence of presumed liability laws (which personally, I don't believe go far enough even where they exist). However, the US has a popular culture that glorifies solving problems with violence. In the US we kill each other, in Japan they kill themselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan As Berra noted, 'you can see a lot by just looking' : http://danmark.wordpress.com/2006/07...-nations-ever/ specifically http://www.lilliput-information.com/...s/intkrim1.gif and then we find: http://fathersforlife.org/health/who_suicide_rates.htm So maybe Japan isn't 'world class' in seppuku and maybe the Scandivaians are 'multi tasking' in both events. USA has a lot of murders. But then again we have a lot of people. "America is big and diverse. We have one of everything" is my usual expression. Outliers are not trends. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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