I think LA is skipping the TDF this year to focus on the hour record

Lance should consider using the East Point Velodrome in Atlanta.. It
is being repaired and will reopen about mid march. Its made of HARD
CONCRETE for Speed. Also has a few bumps to keep riders from being
bored. The ready made track would save money and having Lance ride there
would Give East point needed publicity. I almost forgot the home stretch
is uphill so this builds muscle mass after riding the track.
At 61 years old Merxk with a few months training could still kick Lance
in a pursuit on any track.. So he would still beat Lance in an hour.
Lance could never ride as any races in a year as Merxk.
Have you children noticed who coaches Lance??? DUH .. yep retired 60`s
riders. Damn they shortened 25 mile time
trials for you of the younger generation and some of you still can`t
break an hour. Gee and we used steel bikes at about 22-23lbs for a bike.
Thats 10 lbs more than a SX13.
Gee grow up I could have stopped for sex and still not lost 10 min`s in
a 12mile tt. He was a loser .
Next time I`ll bring some cheese to go with all the wine in this group
The Bear...... a `60`s racer and I still do over 200 miles in daylite
hrs in August over mountains.

@ @

~~~

Art M wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
oups.com...

MagillaGorilla wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

Carl,


I take issue with you on your statement that corners cause
acceleration.
Corners slow down riders compared to straightaways in bikes and
everything else.


NASCARs go SLOWER in the turn, not faster. So do planes,
trains,
and
automobiles.


The reason why turns slow you down is because you are changing
your

inertia and it is being lost in extra friction with the track.
Going
straight is the most efficient.


So if you want to design the fastest TT track it would be a 40k
long
straight piece of wood.


Thanks,


Magilla
Professor of Physics


Dude, your identity is blown:



http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e?dmode=source

Carl is right. Trace the route of the center of gravity of the
bicycle
plus rider as it travels around a velodrome. The CoG drops in
the
turns.
It also takes a shorter route than the wheels do on the track
surface.

When I first saw a power tap profile from a 3K pursuit I rode it
took
me a while to figure out where the sawtooth pattern was coming
from. I
initially thought it was the wind, but the period was 2X/lap,
not
one.
Because it was from the turns.

I wish I'd have figured that out years earlier, I'd have been a
much
faster pursuit rider if I had.

Bob Schwartz

Bobby Brady,

Physics are the same for everybody - I copied Newton. Your
application
of physics is missing something because it's not possible for me
to
believe you go faster in turns.

You are also climbing slightly in the turns. And the 2x 'peak' in
speed
you see is probably the result of you accelerating in the
straightaway
after coming off each turn, which you do twice per lap too.

So there.


Magilla

NASCAR cars slow in the turns because their straightaway speeds
exceed
the traction limits for their tires in the turns. Oh, yea, the
driver
leaning his head doesn't significantly change the cars COG.

Once I read about the affect on speed when "cornering" on a track,
I
modified my climbing technique to capitalize on the effect. While
you
may not think you're accelerating on the track, try this the next
time
you're climbing and see how it works for you: when entering a
switchback, swing wide as if you're taking a gentle arc around the
less-steep outside, then just about at the apex turn sharply and
lean
into the curve. If you apply even moderately steady pressure to
the
pedals, you'll accelerate noticeably as you go through the rest of
the
curve and out of the switchback.

That's because you aren't going up the hill when you do that (a least
not as
steeply). That's why switchbacks are built in the first place -- to
sacrifice a shorter route for a slighter grade. In this case you
eventually
have to follow the road so you're just postponing the inevitable for
a
couple of seconds.

--Art


Not exactly. As you may know, the inner line on a switchback is
STEEPER than an outer, more gradual line. So, by going from the
outside to the inside not only am I not 'not going uphill', I'm
actually taking a steeper line. To make it work, you don't just turn
into the curve, you have to lean your body (i.e. your center of
gravity) into the turn, then the bike will naturally accelerate into
the turn to 'catch up' to you and keep you from falling over.

If you think it must be someway related to the change in grade, try
this experiment: on FLAT ground, ride very slowly in a wide arc, then
.... lean your body steeply to the inside of your turn and see what
happens to your momentum when the bike leans into the turn underneath
you.

On 15 Feb 2005 07:54:11 -0800, Scott wrote:
To make it work, you don't just turn
into the curve, you have to lean your body (i.e. your center of
gravity) into the turn, then the bike will naturally accelerate into
the turn to 'catch up' to you and keep you from falling over.

What, no falling over?! But how about the adrenaline theory?


--
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I think Sheryl C. may have let it slip on "After the Oprah Show."
Oprah asked her if their celebrity status has a negative effect on
their relationship, and she said, the only negative was working out
their schedules. She said (I'm paraphrasing a bit), "for example, I'm
putting out a record this spring, but if this really is his last tour,
then I don't want to miss it." At which point Lance patted her knee
and said something like, "we don't know that yet." And she quickly
added, "or the next year, or the year after that."

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Either of those points would be easier technically than heading
up the bank in the steep part of the turn and dropping in at the
back as the team exits the turn. Yet that's where most teams do
it. What do you think might be up with that?

It is the fastest way for dropping?

It is easier to take the wheel of the tail rider, because of the acceleration?

The second rider faces a less sudden increase in resistance?

Jenko, not cut out for physics or mathematics either

Jenko wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:

Either of those points would be easier technically than heading
up the bank in the steep part of the turn and dropping in at the
back as the team exits the turn. Yet that's where most teams do
it. What do you think might be up with that?

It is the fastest way for dropping?

This is important in any team event. Once you pull off you want
to get to a sheltered position as quickly as possible. This holds
for a TTT also.

A track is banked even on the straights so a quick transition
should be possible anywhere.

It is easier to take the wheel of the tail rider, because of the acceleration?

You want to accelerate and then do the transition, rather than
transition while the rest of the team was accelerating. That way
you are grabbing the end of a team that is slowing as they exit
the turn.

Bob Schwartz

Boyd -- you are WHACK!!

-Ken

wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:


I take issue with you on your statement that corners cause

acceleration.

Corners slow down riders compared to straightaways in bikes and
everything else.

NASCARs go SLOWER in the turn, not faster. So do planes, trains, and


automobiles.

The reason why turns slow you down is because you are changing your
inertia and it is being lost in extra friction with the track. Going


straight is the most efficient.


Apey,

On a flat surface or a shallow bank, cars have to slow
through the turn to avoid losing traction and breaking free.
On a steeply banked surface like a velodrome that's not
necessary.

You are changing your momentum in the turn because the track
is exerting a force on you. Because you are pulling extra
g-force, the rolling resistance should go up slightly, but this
is much less than the effect of dropping your CoG (you have to
give that energy back when you exit the turn) and your body
taking a shorter path than the wheels (you don't have to give
that back).

Where's the change in momentum coming from? The track is
pushing on you, and - equal and opposite reaction - you are
pushing on the track. It's a good thing there aren't more
track riders, or the unequal forces on the Earth, since they
always turn left, could throw the Earth off its axis. It's
a potential weapon of mass destruction - ban track racing now!



To all you people who failed physics,

You don't go faster in the turns. Period. If you think you do, then
you're a ****ing loser.

Dropping your center of gravity causes an increase in friction that does
not happen on the straightaways. And any benefit you get from dropping
your center of gravity is lost by the increase in friction and extra
energy the rider needs to input. You are also going uphill in order to
initiate the lowering of you CoG, which is also going to slow you down.

When all is said and done, and you finish the dimensional analysis, you
end up going slower in turns, not faster.

Go talk to a physics professor, not some former track riders.

Take care,

Magilla

MagillaGorilla wrote:
You are also going uphill in order to
initiate the lowering of you CoG, which is also going to slow you down.

Banana Slammer,

The blue band is level. If one is riding at the blue band going
into the turn, what the **** are you talking about with this
uphill ****?

What you say is true for riding at the rail because of the change
in the degree of banking between the straight and the turn. For
example, on a 250m track the 200m line is in a turn. When ramping
up for a flying 200 the point where you begin descending from the
rail to the 200m line is point where the banking starts transitioning
from the shallower angle of the straights to the steeper angle of
the turn. This is because you don't want to wipe off speed going
uphill just as you are approaching the start of your flying 200.

None of this applies at the blue band. Very few pursuits and hour
record attempts are ridden at the rail. What the **** are you
talking about?

Bob Schwartz

MagillaGorilla wrote:
You are also going uphill in order to
initiate the lowering of you CoG, which is also going to slow you down.

There are a whole pile of velodrome pictures he

http://www.velodromes.com/

Could you please show me where the uphill part is?

Bob Schwartz