Cyclingnews follies.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:58:32 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:28:25 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:

Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
"Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum bar's
durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently enough to
justify the switch.

Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?

Your math is way wrong..

Dear John,

Let's assume a rider who weighs 150 pounds on a bike that weighs 17
pounds--167 pounds total, or about 76 kilograms. The total mass is
what matters with bicycle speed.

167 pounds * 0.454 kg/lb = 76 kilograms

50 grams on bar / 76,000 grams total

50 / 76000 = 0.00066, which is about 0.066%

In other words, Peter's math looks right.

***

You may have mistakenly been thinking of the weight savings of the
bicycle, which is only about 10% of the total mass.

Or, even worse, of the weight savings for just the handlebar, which is
even more trivial.

Plug that kind of tiny savings into a calculator and send a powerful
rider up a steep hill, where the 50-gram e might be visible:
http://bikecalculator.com/veloMetricNum.html

Let's try 400 watts on a 10% grade and leave the default weights alone
at 70 kg rider and 9 kg bike, changing to 8.95 kg in the right-hand
column for comparison.

For a 30 km climb up a 10% grade, the difference amounts to 112.44
minutes versus 112.38 minutes, a 0.06 minute advantage, or 3.6 seconds
in about two hours, roughly the effect of sneezing three times.

0.06 minutes / 112.4 minutes = 0.00054, about 0.05%

In other words, a savings of about 0.06% weight translates into a
savings of about 0.06% of time on a climb, which is what we'd expect,
since most of the effort goes into raising the mass.

On the flats, where mass has far less effect, you'd probably get
better results taping your earlobes down to reduce wind drag.

As the article that Peter quoted said, the racer thought (rightly or
wrongly) that the aluminum handlebar had advantages that outweighed
the trivial 50 gram weight reduction of the carbron bar.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

A Muzi writes:

Taking fifty grams from an 85kg bike+rider system, what did you get?

Don't let that bottle cage mislead you (even though just looking at it
makes my right shoulder ache), it's still a cross bike. And as such
its weight makes the biggest difference when it's being lifted or
shouldered, so comparing weights including the rider is quite secondary.
(Not that I would ever want plastic handlebars on mine.)

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:

A Muzi wrote:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:

A Muzi wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

Your math is way wrong.. * *

Taking fifty grams from an 85kg bike+rider system, what did you get?

I get .06% -- but you said there wouldn't be any math.

I said that? How about meth? *I didn't say that either.

There's no meth?

Darn.

Rats, I showed up in this thread for the meth too.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:50:12 -0600, "PatTX"
wrote:

::
::: Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
::: "Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
::: fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
::: conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
::: likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum
::: bar's durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently
::: enough to justify the switch.
:::
::: Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?
::
:: Your math is way wrong..

So. show us your math, then.


50 grams out of a bike that weighs, say, 8000 grams is about .6 of 1%.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:44:13 -0600, A Muzi
wrote:

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
"Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum bar's
durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently enough to
justify the switch.
Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
Your math is way wrong..

Taking fifty grams from an 85kg bike+rider system, what did you get?

It's cyclocross. He has to lift the bike to his shoulder, not do a
high jump with it.

On Nov 21, 6:58*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:28:25 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo

wrote:
Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
"Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum bar's
durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently enough to
justify the switch.

Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?

Your math is way wrong.. * *

170 pound rider, 18 pound bike=188 pounds times 454=85,352 gram
'package'. 50 divided by 85,352= .00058581........

On Nov 21, 9:46*am, "
wrote:
On Nov 21, 9:50*am, "PatTX" wrote:



::
::: Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
::: "Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
::: fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
::: conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
::: likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum
::: bar's durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently
::: enough to justify the switch.
:::
::: Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?
::
:: Your math is way wrong..

So. show us your math, then.

Pat in TX

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2008...wells_gtr_type....

8.17 kg total bike weight. *50 / 8170 grams is .006. *Or 0.6% of total
weight.

Tough to ride the bike w/o a rider.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:54:28 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:

On Nov 21, 6:58*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:28:25 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo

wrote:
Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
"Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum bar's
durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently enough to
justify the switch.

Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?

Your math is way wrong.. * *

170 pound rider, 18 pound bike=188 pounds times 454=85,352 gram
'package'. 50 divided by 85,352= .00058581........

It's a cross bike and he's a cross racer. He's lifting the bike alone
sometimes. So it's .6 of 1% at those times.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:36:51 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:54:28 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:

On Nov 21, 6:58*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:28:25 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo

wrote:
Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
"Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum bar's
durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently enough to
justify the switch.

Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?

Your math is way wrong.. * *

170 pound rider, 18 pound bike=188 pounds times 454=85,352 gram
'package'. 50 divided by 85,352= .00058581........

It's a cross bike and he's a cross racer. He's lifting the bike alone
sometimes. So it's .6 of 1% at those times.

Oh, I forgot to include the weight of his watch and his gloves and
forearms...

On Nov 22, 7:36*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:54:28 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo



wrote:
On Nov 21, 6:58*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:28:25 -0800 (PST), Qui si parla Campagnolo

wrote:
Article on Todd Wells cross bike,
"Wells was in the minority last season with his choice of a carbon
fiber handlebar but jumped on the bandwagon for '08 with a more
conventional KORE Road Elite model made of 7075 aluminum. Though he
likely misses the carbon bar's 50g weight savings, the aluminum bar's
durability advantage and grippier surface was apparently enough to
justify the switch.

Do ya suppose he misses that .06 of 1% weight savings?

Your math is way wrong.. * *

170 pound rider, 18 pound bike=188 pounds times 454=85,352 gram
'package'. 50 divided by 85,352= .00058581........

It's a cross bike and he's a cross racer. *He's lifting the bike alone
sometimes. *So it's .6 of 1% at those times.

Absolutely!! 6/10 of 1% is HUGE, and I'm sure Todd 'likely misses'
that 50 gram weight savings.

sigh.