Hybrid Cars Too Quiet For Pedestrian Safety?

On Nov 21, 5:36*pm, datakoll wrote:
WE'RE petitioning for open exhausts with megaphones on all hybrids in
the Bend area.

I used to ride a hybrid with open exhaust on Mondays (burrito day.)

Oh, wait, you mean gas/electric hybrids, dontcha?

Per Michael Press:
Try to ding in the passing
lane, even for the first distant ring.

That's what I do.

Now that you've mentioned it, I realize that people actually do
calculate my left-right position from the sound.

Some people don't even look, they just wave a hand.
--
PeteCresswell

Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
" wrote:

On Nov 21, 1:54 pm, John Henderson wrote:
Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:





http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1117091633.htm
"Important pedestrian safety issues have emerged with the
advent of hybrid and electric vehicles. These vehicles are
relatively quiet‹they do not emit the sounds pedestrians and
bicyclists are accustomed to hearing as a vehicle approaches
them on the street or at an intersection."
We have a fair number of hybrids around here and they are darn
quiet. Need to be extra-alert for them. Unlike, say, a Ford
F350 with a rattle-clatter Diesel engine that can be heard two
blocks away -- idling.
But my favorite sentence from the article: "The authors note
that [adding a sound source] is also applicable to
silent-engine vehicles such as electric golf carts, bicycles,
wheelchairs, and Segways, which have caused injuries because
of their quiet operation."
So, it's time for a Friday Poll(TM): What sound source do you
favor for bicycles to better alert pedestrians to their
presence?
() Playing cards in the spokes
() A little bell
() Loud drunken singing
() Rusty, squeaky chain
() Other (be specific)
The sound of a locked-up rear wheel - clears the bike path of
pedestrians every time
I used that last night, accidentally, on a MUP in Beverly, MA. It's
just a short thing along the river from the train to the Cummings
Center, but it was convenient for my route (plus it stops by the skate
park!). I was riding along, 2 people walking toward me with their
heads apparently in the clouds, talking. I figured for sure they'd
see me. I turned on my second, really bright headlight. I slowed
down. We got even closer, and even though the dude facing me was
looking at me, I could tell he didn't see me. Cloud 9 I tell ya. So,
I touched the brakes again to slow and go around them. Apparently I
was on ice, because I got a second of slide followed by a fraction of
a second of skid. We were still 15' apart, but that sound was like a
gunshot to this dude. He somehow leapt vertically and managed to land
back and 3' over, behind his friend, saying "sorry" mid ar. I managed
to contain my laughter long enough to tell him "no worries man". I
bet loud drunken singing would have worked at a more effective range.

A loud friendly hail alerts them to my presence,
and the time interval between the decision to alert
and the hail is very short.

Hellooo-oooh.

Raise the volume enough and I can be heard from
100 meter easily. 100 m is not so far at 30+ km/hr.

I also have a single ding bell to alert bicyclists
that I overtake.

I have an Air Zound for the IPod crowd.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

On 11/21/2008 7:14 PM Woland99 wrote:

On Nov 21, 11:58 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
wrote:
So, it's time for a Friday Poll(TM): What sound source do you favor for
bicycles to better alert pedestrians to their presence?

() Playing cards in the spokes
() A little bell
() Loud drunken singing
() Rusty, squeaky chain
() Other (be specific)

A lackey or a domestique - running or riding in front of a bike
with big drum, trumpet and bright colored flag to alert innocent
pedestrian of impending doom.
Just like it was required for the first automobiles.

It's so hard to find a good lackey these days -- especially on my budget.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On Nov 21, 6:27*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,





*"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per :
I started using "hi" or "hello"
after one too many people stepped left after I hailed "on your left".

Some years back, after almost causing simultaneous heart attacks
in an elderly couple in French Creek State Park, I switched to a
single-dinger.

Didn't expect it, but find some people even say "Thank You". *

I get the best results by dinging it once at full volume or
nearly full volume at least 25 feet back and a second time very
lightly as I approach with a good 3 or 4 feet of lateral
distance.

I think dinging from too directly behind somebody has a negative
effect - sort of a "Here I come, get out of my way" message.

Yes. People need time to register the sound, locate,
think, decide, look, and act. One ding from a long way back,
then a second gives them enough information to locate
and calculate closing speed. Try to ding in the passing
lane, even for the first distant ring. People can hear
that you are in the passing lane. Give them plenty of time,
and everyone is happy.

--
Michael Press- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But I'm finding that trail-newbies are remarkably deep in their
thoughts, even without ipods in their ears. Besides being concerned
about a collision I also worry about startle reactions...especially
dogs don't like being startled and sometimes react badly...but the
worst I've encountered was two women on skates with some kind of sharp
sticks, like they were practicing for cross-country skiing, when I
moved to the left lane and dinged multiple times I saw the one in the
left lane move to the right, thus I assumed that she was clearing the
path for me and forged ahead, but as I pulled through she majorly
startled bringing that darn stick uncomfortably close to my eyes. It
seems to me that no matter what I do, someone doesn't like it.
ABS

On Nov 21, 7:14 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Nov 21, 11:58 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel

wrote:
So, it's time for a Friday Poll(TM): What sound source do you favor for
bicycles to better alert pedestrians to their presence?

() Playing cards in the spokes
() A little bell
() Loud drunken singing
() Rusty, squeaky chain
() Other (be specific)

A lackey or a domestique - running or riding in front of a bike
with big drum, trumpet and bright colored flag...

Or clapping together the halves of a coconut shell :-)

Dan Overman wrote:
On Nov 21, 7:14 pm, Woland99 wrote:
On Nov 21, 11:58 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel

wrote:
So, it's time for a Friday Poll(TM): What sound source do you favor for
bicycles to better alert pedestrians to their presence?
() Playing cards in the spokes
() A little bell
() Loud drunken singing
() Rusty, squeaky chain
() Other (be specific)
A lackey or a domestique - running or riding in front of a bike
with big drum, trumpet and bright colored flag...

Or clapping together the halves of a coconut shell :-)

Where'd you get the coconuts?

We found them.

Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:58:31 -0800, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
wrote:

So, it's time for a Friday Poll(TM): What sound source do you favor for
bicycles to better alert pedestrians to their presence?

() Playing cards in the spokes
() A little bell
() Loud drunken singing
() Rusty, squeaky chain
() Other (be specific)

First choice: Road-runner style "meep-meep!" Used with friendly types
(i.e., no ear buds present).

Second choice: Brakes worn so they're no longer toed in. Squeal like
a stuck pig, audible for three blocks, makes drivers of passing F-350s
look twice.

Pat

Email address works as is.

wrote:

But I'm finding that trail-newbies are remarkably deep in their
thoughts, even without ipods in their ears. Besides being concerned
about a collision I also worry about startle reactions...especially
dogs don't like being startled and sometimes react badly...but the
worst I've encountered was two women on skates with some kind of sharp
sticks, like they were practicing for cross-country skiing, when I
moved to the left lane and dinged multiple times I saw the one in the
left lane move to the right, thus I assumed that she was clearing the
path for me and forged ahead, but as I pulled through she majorly
startled bringing that darn stick uncomfortably close to my eyes. It
seems to me that no matter what I do, someone doesn't like it.
ABS

That about sums it up. Whenever I find myself on a trail with a lot of
other users, their behavior is so unpredictable that I just resign
myself to matching speed to pass. Even leaving the trail to pass doesn't
assure safety, I've had people (joggers, usually) hop off the trail
suddenly into my path. I've probably ridden the very popular Charles
River path (Boston) 1,000 times over the last 30+ years (16 mi RT) and I
haven't actually collided with anyone, so I must be doing something
right, or maybe just lucky. I try to think of every possible thing
someone might do, but I still occasionally get surprised.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:

So, it's time for a Friday Poll(TM): What sound source do you favor for
bicycles to better alert pedestrians to their presence?

() Playing cards in the spokes
() A little bell
() Loud drunken singing
() Rusty, squeaky chain
() Other (be specific)


I just slow down to nearly their speed, and, if there's sufficient room,
just pass without warning, as I would if walking or jogging. If they're
blocking the path, I'll match speed and say "excuse me" in a normal
conversational tone. Sometimes I'll flick my brake levers or shifters to
make a little noise from further back, which works surprisingly well if
they're not deep in conversation or music. It's a common sound on bike
paths. I think bikes are only intimidating when the relative speeds are
too high. If I'm among pedestrians (e.g. sidewalk) I usually just cycle
at walking speed rather than dismount.