Rock n Roll

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 10:23:03 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 11:34:12 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 22/06/2017 10:08 AM, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.


Of course it did.

More bull**** from Joerg. If indeed he broke that chain tool then it was most likely a cheap white metal one or Joerg didn't center the chain tool pin over the chain pin and then he reefed on the tool with the pin against the the wrong part of the chain and that broke the tool. In other words he abused the tool and that caused it to fail.

Why did my Park chain breaker come with two extra tips and one I've already used? All it takes is the slightest misalignment of the tip and it will break right off. A nail would at worst, bend.

You know, I have a tool box for working on cars. I have another toolbox for working on bikes. Four drawers in my garage contain woodworking tools. Four drawers and three shelves woodworking power tools. Two entire steel racks for yard working tools and another tool box for boat working tools.

Listening to your crap tells me that you couldn't take your own temperature with an anal thermometer. You'd stick it in your mouth.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 11:44:36 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 6/22/17 7:08 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

I suspect the one you broke was one of the el-cheapo ones sold in drug
stores or department stores, though I can't ever recall breaking one of
those either, despite the low grade materials.

You probably solder 0201 surface mount components with a Weller 160W
soldering gun.

I forgot - I also have a telephone tool belt and another electronics tool box.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 12:22:38 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 11:40, sms wrote:
On 6/22/17 7:08 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

I suspect the one you broke was one of the el-cheapo ones sold in drug
stores or department stores, though I can't ever recall breaking one of
those either, despite the low grade materials.


It didn't like the wider links of 5/6-speed chains. The hammer and
punch, in contrast, never cared :-)


You probably solder 0201 surface mount components with a Weller 160W
soldering gun.


Not quite but I solder 0201 with 50W Weller stations. WECP-20 and
sometimes WES51. ETS tips are nice for that. When my age crept above 50
I started needing a 5x Donovan Optical head loupe. Most of my designs
nowadays don't go below 0401 but they do for sampling diodes and such.
Those things can be smaller than flees.

Aside from a nice set of top quality files my grandpa also left me
various soldering irons. The manly kind where you first make a nice hot
fire, place them in there and then solder. Not so great for SMT stuff
though.

Grandpa was always the early adopter when new technology came out. I
still have his first radio wit a tube that could rightfully claim to be
the world's first integrated circuit, 90 years old now:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_3nf.html

Have to get back to my brew kettle now. An Irish Red Ale will be made.
This morning I brewed an Autumn Amber Ale. Took the day off. While it
boils (outside) I alternate between doing some yard work and swimming in
the pool. Life is great :-)

You guys should see my brewing utensils. A lot more McGyver stuff than I
ever used on bicycle maintenance.

I doubt that any of the people here know that on modern electronics circuits you have to work under a microscope. Designing PC boards that use noise abatement technology is rather specialized.

On 6/21/2017 8:59 PM, James wrote:
On 21/06/17 08:16, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 3:02:33 PM UTC-7, James wrote:


Cooking in a hot wax/oil bath is much more effective.

What is your formula, exactly. I'll be the tester. Just like with my
dynamo.


I cannot be exact because I didn't measure what I used.

I started with a very large candle. I warmed it up in a pot on the
stove to liquify it, and added about 30-40% EP gear oil.

There is a recipe on the internet that uses paraffin wax and clear
paraffin oil in a 50/50 ratio. A mate uses that and it works fine and
is less smelly than the EP oil.

I think I used a lot less oil than that in my mix. It was long, long
ago, so I can't be sure.

At one point I read an article in an engineering magazine describing
research into boric acid as a lubricant additive. It wasn't this one
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.o.../368/1929/4851 but it
shows that some people are interested in this.

I mixed up another small batch of wax+oil with added boric acid and
tried that, but I couldn't detect any benefit; and I suspected it might
have caused faster rust on steel drivetrain parts.

To me, it seems like wax plus oil is good enough. It's got significant
advantages over other chain lubes, and the specific amount of oil in the
mix is not critical.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/22/2017 11:49 AM, Duane wrote:
On 22/06/2017 11:23 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 7:08:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

I had a file once that I got from this crazy locomotive engineer. It
broke. I went back to using my chain tool to file parts. I had a hex
wrench break, too, so now I use vice grips -- or a hammer.


chains must be mystical. You can break a chain tool replacing one but a
nail and a stone works like a charm.

Well, as Joerg said, you should use a hardened nail. Those are what he
easily finds lying in the dirt alongside back country bike trails -
unlike in hardware stores, where 99% of the nails are made of low carbon
steel.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/22/2017 9:27 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few
strokes and
not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put
significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper,
grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized,
they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops.
Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain
pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not
familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths
of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file
attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant
change in the
chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited
from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from
great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too.
I wear out a first rate American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame
repair and nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are quite
worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer and he
bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn. He also
bought new ones but then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have swapped out
dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip (which
could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel nut
underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain, push
in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly holding but
not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in Europe
were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and that was my
favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

That method sounds so superior to chain tools, I'm sure it must be what
most professional bike mechanics use!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/22/2017 1:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 11:34:12 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 22/06/2017 10:08 AM, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.


Of course it did.

More bull**** from Joerg. If indeed he broke that chain tool then it was most likely a cheap white metal one or Joerg didn't center the chain tool pin over the chain pin and then he reefed on the tool with the pin against the the wrong part of the chain and that broke the tool. In other words he abused the tool and that caused it to fail.


Well keep in mind, nothing works for Joerg. Except his own amazing
inventions, of course.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/22/2017 3:07 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 8:06:38 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few strokes and not
a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops. Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant change in the
chain pin.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank are files all the same? Are the cheap ones soft?

I doubt that all of anything are the same! The differences in files
would, I think, be metallurgy and heat treatment. I doubt you'll ever
get technical details from any manufacturer. But some could use plain
carbon steel (perhaps 1095) while others might have alloying elements
added. But plain carbon steel can get amazingly hard, which is the main
property needed in a file.

Most of mine are Nicholson brand and quite old, purchased back in the
1970s. That's a brand that has been pretty much standard issue in most
professional machine shops. I have a couple Craftsman files, and a few
various "off brands."

I've heard that Nicholson are now made in Mexico instead of the U.S.,
and some people have complained that they're not as good as they once
were. I can't speak to that.

When visiting my kid at college, I remember needing a file for something
and buying a cheap one from a discount store. It worked well, and I
think it's one of the ones still in my drawer downstairs, still just
fine. But that could be luck of the draw - as in "Gosh, I wonder what
little Chinese company made this, so I could buy more."

Also, the big disclaimer: I'm sure my files don't see nearly as much
action as Andrew's.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-06-22 14:02, wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 12:22:38 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 11:40, sms wrote:
On 6/22/17 7:08 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle
chain pin is no match. The filing exercise in the
photo took just a few strokes and not a lot of
pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain
pins. I think you'll find (as James and I did) that
no steel file will put significant cuts in the pin.
Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding
wheels, diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless
motorized, they'll cut it pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description of practical hardness commonly used
in machine shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too
hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a
chain pin. There may be some exotic and rare files
out there that I'm not familiar with. But having
worked in three machine shops for various lengths of
time, I can say that any normal "professional grade"
steel file attacking a chain pin will give you
scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files
inherited from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited
from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate
American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and
nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I
have are quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam
locomotive engineer and he bought tools that the railroad
shop kicked out as too worn. He also bought new ones but
then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime
have swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not
slip (which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever.
Place steel nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than
pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail
and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length.
Mount chain, push in the last pin, "caress" it with the
hammer so it is firmly holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old
days in Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes
usually didn't and that was my favorite kind of bike (until
mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first
chain tool in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I
couldn't imagine removing or installing a chain with a
hammer, nail and file -- and presumably a block of wood or
something to put under the chain when it was back on the bike
for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It
broke. I had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my
old method. The chain tool I have now came with a bike repair
tool kit, else I still wouldn't have one.

I suspect the one you broke was one of the el-cheapo ones sold in
drug stores or department stores, though I can't ever recall
breaking one of those either, despite the low grade materials.


It didn't like the wider links of 5/6-speed chains. The hammer and
punch, in contrast, never cared :-)


You probably solder 0201 surface mount components with a Weller
160W soldering gun.


Not quite but I solder 0201 with 50W Weller stations. WECP-20 and
sometimes WES51. ETS tips are nice for that. When my age crept
above 50 I started needing a 5x Donovan Optical head loupe. Most of
my designs nowadays don't go below 0401 but they do for sampling
diodes and such. Those things can be smaller than flees.

Aside from a nice set of top quality files my grandpa also left me
various soldering irons. The manly kind where you first make a nice
hot fire, place them in there and then solder. Not so great for SMT
stuff though.

Grandpa was always the early adopter when new technology came out.
I still have his first radio wit a tube that could rightfully claim
to be the world's first integrated circuit, 90 years old now:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_3nf.html

Have to get back to my brew kettle now. An Irish Red Ale will be
made. This morning I brewed an Autumn Amber Ale. Took the day off.
While it boils (outside) I alternate between doing some yard work
and swimming in the pool. Life is great :-)

You guys should see my brewing utensils. A lot more McGyver stuff
than I ever used on bicycle maintenance.

I doubt that any of the people here know that on modern electronics
circuits you have to work under a microscope.


Jeff Lieberman and Stephen Scharf do. I used a USB microscope for a
while, one of those VEHO sub-$100 deals for students. Allows around 5"
scope-to-iron distance. Later I resorted to a head loupe because I do
not have to reposition that all the time when working on larger boards
of assembled prototypes. I lucked out. Donegan made 5x loupes for a
short time, I bought two right away and now they don't seem to have them
anymore. The highest I could see are 3.5x and that is marginal for me
when soldering 0201 parts, at least after I was well past 50.

http://www.doneganoptical.com/products/optivisor


... Designing PC boards
that use noise abatement technology is rather specialized.


You lost me there. Noise abatement on a board? The only cases I had were
for large aircraft, in the cabin where we had to neutralize the
400/800Hz "singing" by clever component placement and such. Other times
we had to "smoosh" magnetostrictive noise from ferrite cores.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-06-22 15:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/22/2017 9:27 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few
strokes and
not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put
significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper,
grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized,
they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops.
Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain
pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not
familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths
of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file
attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant
change in the
chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited
from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from
great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too.
I wear out a first rate American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame
repair and nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are quite
worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer and he
bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn. He also
bought new ones but then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have swapped
out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip (which
could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel nut
underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in Europe
were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and that was
my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

That method sounds so superior to chain tools, I'm sure it must be what
most professional bike mechanics use!


For rarely used tools my wife and I have the mantra "Do not buy what
just clogs shelf space most of the time if there is another way".
Swapping out a chain didn't take me longer than today where I have a
chain tool. Mainly because I do not trust a pin that's just pressed in
for riding. I want it "petted" with a hammer to make sure it stays at
its assigned job location.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/