recumbents suck

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
$kip wrote:

...
Tom's MTB is a pain in the ass because it's unlikely that he invests in
the
short amount of saddle time needed to make that bit of pain go away. Or
else the bike fit is all screwed up.[1]

Fit is overrated. It can solve certain problems, but in the end an
upright rider will still be supporting much of his/her weight over a
very small area. A different saddle might help, but the current one is
beat up from off-road crashes, so I am reluctant to put a new one on.


Ride 50 miles on a really ill fitting road bike and then tell me how
overrated proper fit is. The idea, I believe, is to distribute your weight
over a wide area allowing your arms and legs act as shock absorbers. The
seat (saddle the DF'ers call them) serves more as a perch than a seat. If
your weight is concentrated on the seat then you are doing something wrong
or you are riding one of those silly comfort bikes.

MTB's in my experience aren't made for distance riding. In the DF world
nothing has ever taken the place of the standard drop bar. Again this works
for millions of riders and has for many years.

I have hand, wrist and back problems due to repetitive motion injuries
(insert Eugene Scalia rant here), so I doubt that I will ever be
comfortable riding long distances on an upright.


If you can't ride them, then you can't ride them. Bents would be your only
real option. You should give USS a try if you have significant wrist
trouble. USS is very kind to the wrists.

[1] I can't imagine Tom not getting the fit exactly right.

I have $kip using footnotes - there is hope for him yet.

I do make and effort, at least sometimes, to humor you.

Nevertheless, based on your fit is overrated remark, I rescind the footnote.

skip

skip Wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
$kip wrote:

...
Tom's MTB is a pain in the ass because it's unlikely that he
invests in
the
short amount of saddle time needed to make that bit of pain go
away. Or
else the bike fit is all screwed up.[1]

Fit is overrated. It can solve certain problems, but in the end an
upright rider will still be supporting much of his/her weight over a
very small area. A different saddle might help, but the current one
is
beat up from off-road crashes, so I am reluctant to put a new one
on.


Ride 50 miles on a really ill fitting road bike and then tell me how
overrated proper fit is. The idea, I believe, is to distribute your
weight
over a wide area allowing your arms and legs act as shock absorbers.
The
seat (saddle the DF'ers call them) serves more as a perch than a seat.
If
your weight is concentrated on the seat then you are doing something
wrong
or you are riding one of those silly comfort bikes.(quote)

Many people who ride conventional bikes reguard recumbents as silly.
Every configuration has come into being to fill a niche.
I have been getting less use out of my bent in recent times and riding
my mountain bike and my Comfort/commuter/cruiser ( I'm not really sure
which catagory it fits) Peugot Paris.
I bought my recumbent for long range multi day road tours after my
last marriage ended.
Since then, I have met and married a wonderful woman, who, althogh she
enjoys cycling with me, is not into the long haul thing. When we go for
a ride, it often involves loading the bikes on the pickup and heading
out to the trail.
This is much more conveinient with the DF than with my 50 lb long
wheelbase bent.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

$kip wrote:

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

$kip wrote:


...
Tom's MTB is a pain in the ass because it's unlikely that he invests in

the

short amount of saddle time needed to make that bit of pain go away. Or
else the bike fit is all screwed up.[1]

Fit is overrated. It can solve certain problems, but in the end an
upright rider will still be supporting much of his/her weight over a
very small area. A different saddle might help, but the current one is
beat up from off-road crashes, so I am reluctant to put a new one on.



Ride 50 miles on a really ill fitting road bike and then tell me how
overrated proper fit is. The idea, I believe, is to distribute your weight
over a wide area allowing your arms and legs act as shock absorbers. The
seat (saddle the DF'ers call them) serves more as a perch than a seat. If
your weight is concentrated on the seat then you are doing something wrong
or you are riding one of those silly comfort bikes.

When I said that fit was overrated, I was referring to the assumption
that "proper fit" would cure all comfort problems on an upright road
bicycle. I have been told this many times by upright riders who offered
their unsolicited opinions.

In addition, towards the end of a long or hard ride [1], the rider will
tire to the point that supporting most of his/her weight on the legs and
maintaining proper form becomes difficult. Conversely, on a proper
recumbent, on can sit comfortably on the bike at the conclusion of a
similarly strenuous ride.

MTB's in my experience aren't made for distance riding. In the DF world
nothing has ever taken the place of the standard drop bar. Again this works
for millions of riders and has for many years.

Comfort while using a MTB off-road is usually not much of an issue,
since the rides are generally shorter and the rider spends much of the
time out of the saddle.

I have hand, wrist and back problems due to repetitive motion injuries
(insert Eugene Scalia rant here), so I doubt that I will ever be
comfortable riding long distances on an upright.

If you can't ride them, then you can't ride them. Bents would be your only
real option. You should give USS a try if you have significant wrist
trouble. USS is very kind to the wrists.

I find the RANS T-bars to be comfortable for 8-hour rides, so I see no
urgency to go to USS [2]. USS is greatly inferior to OSS as a mirror
mount and does not work well with bodysocks or other types of full fairings.

[1] "Long" and "hard" will vary with the rider's fitness level, but even
the best conditioned cyclist will reach this condition at some point.
[2] I can always take out Dragonflyer if I am in an USS mood.

--
Tom Sherman – Curmudgeon and Pedant

EVsolutions wrote:

Situation is this...I have been having strong urges these last few weeks to
buy a MTB, one that has shocks fore and aft.
While such a purchase may not seem like a big deal to anyone else, in my
case I have been bent for 26 years and for many of those years I would have
opted for falling on a pointed stick before I'd return to riding a DF again.

What has lead me to this point of despair are the driving conditions on my
daily grind. The streets have gone without resurfacing for 6 years, potholes
now house young familes, road cuts have shredded 2 of my Avocet Cross tires
in the last few months.

And they will shred a DF bikes tires also, won't they?


Best of all while riding one of my USS tadpoles, the
entire steering system failed...tie rod broke and the handlebars actually
broke apart (metal fatique). I have had axles breaking when the wheels got
caught in streetcar rails.

Streetcar rails are dangerous no matter what bike you ride. I was on a
honda 750 chopper and my 21" front wheel slipped into the railroad
grove and it threw my chopper up in the air and on the ground. And you
have to realize that motorcycle weights a hell of a lot more than your bent.
While I haven't had the experience of doing it on my two wheeled bicycle, I
can image the results wouldn't be all that great...


I had a car driver throw HER car in
reverse...almost bought the farm there, luckily I had the thought to hurl a
12V Lead Acid battery through her rear window (to get her attention).

I now have 4 dead bents (3 trikes), all need major welding and even once
that is done...it is back to the awful roads.

Then I see this Dual Suspension MTB for less than the cost of my 2 front 406
wheels

g I'm sure if you look around, you can find a Dual Suspension MTB that costs
more then the cost of your 2 front 406 wheels also.... That's not a great
reason to buy a DF. g


and the mind starts a thinking maybe going to a DF ain't such a bad
thing afterall.

What's wrong with having both? I've had absolutely great cars, and
still have one, but when I need to haul things around, (garden soil,
river rock, furniture) I have a truck to do that. One vehicle won't do
everything you need all the time. g



I have ALSO been lusting after a GIANT "Stiletto", tis a 2005 Chopper bike
that with the BB raised only a 3 inches can be a Recumbent. This bike is
soooo cool looking, but probably rides like a Pig.

Yeah, it is cool looking, have you seen the Scwhin Stingray with a 48 cc
engine in it? It's cool looking too.... g



So my question is....do I get the MTB and ride the daily grind knowing I
won't wipe out on the awful roads OR do I get the trikes repaired and abuse
them for another winter?

Your answer is to go with what you like and feel comfortable with. One
thing you didn't mention, will you be riding at the same speeds with the MTB
as you do on the bents? I hear you like to go pretty fast.... g


--

-TTFN

-Steven

wrote in message
...
EVsolutions wrote:

Situation is this...I have been having strong urges these last few weeks
to
buy a MTB, one that has shocks fore and aft.
While such a purchase may not seem like a big deal to anyone else, in my
case I have been bent for 26 years and for many of those years I would
have
opted for falling on a pointed stick before I'd return to riding a DF
again.

What has lead me to this point of despair are the driving conditions on
my
daily grind. The streets have gone without resurfacing for 6 years,
potholes
now house young familes, road cuts have shredded 2 of my Avocet Cross
tires
in the last few months.

And they will shred a DF bikes tires also, won't they?

Might not with knobbies

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

SNIP

In addition, towards the end of a long or hard ride [1], the rider will
tire to the point that supporting most of his/her weight on the legs and
maintaining proper form becomes difficult. Conversely, on a proper
recumbent, on can sit comfortably on the bike at the conclusion of a
similarly strenuous ride.


Google Recumbent Butt


[2] I can always take out Dragonflyer if I am in an USS mood.


For some reason I was thinking you only rode the Dragonflyer around on the
inside of your apartment. There was something about the weather not being
good for it if I remember correctly.

"Dan Burkhart" wrote in
message news

Many people who ride conventional bikes reguard recumbents as silly.
Every configuration has come into being to fill a niche.
I have been getting less use out of my bent in recent times and riding
my mountain bike and my Comfort/commuter/cruiser ( I'm not really sure
which catagory it fits) Peugot Paris.
I bought my recumbent for long range multi day road tours after my
last marriage ended.
Since then, I have met and married a wonderful woman, who, althogh she
enjoys cycling with me, is not into the long haul thing. When we go for
a ride, it often involves loading the bikes on the pickup and heading
out to the trail.
This is much more conveinient with the DF than with my 50 lb long
wheelbase bent.
Dan

You are right Dan - all bikes have their purpose and I spoke too harshly
about the Comfort Bike. The sitting straight up on your butt makes the
Comfort Bike comfortable for short rides. It's not a position you would
want to be in for the long haul thing.

What kind of long wheel base recumbent do you have?

skip

$kip wrote:

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

SNIP

In addition, towards the end of a long or hard ride [1], the rider will
tire to the point that supporting most of his/her weight on the legs and
maintaining proper form becomes difficult. Conversely, on a proper
recumbent, on can sit comfortably on the bike at the conclusion of a
similarly strenuous ride.


Google Recumbent Butt

I am aware of this phenomenon, but I have not suffered from it except on
the back of a DoubleDay with a very upright seating position. I was fine
after a double metric on my "Wavewind", and my Rocket and Sunset are
even more comfortable.

[2] I can always take out Dragonflyer if I am in an USS mood.

For some reason I was thinking you only rode the Dragonflyer around on the
inside of your apartment. There was something about the weather not being
good for it if I remember correctly.

During the winter, the roads are often covered in a brine mush, which I
would not want to ride Dragonflyer in due to the corrosion. Something
much less expensive (the new Sun tadpole) or more corrosion resistant
(Optima Rider) would be more appropriates.

--
Tom Sherman – Curmudgeon and Pedant

After having commuted for a while on a number of different recumbents,
I would never commute on one again. Now my commute was less than 10
miles, so I am comfortable on a MTB for that distance. My bent and I
were getting beat up on the poor roads as well.

The MTB let me respond to road hazards and crazed drivers a lot better
than any bent I owned. My MTB has a suspension fork and a suspension
seatpost(Cane Creek). I can swallow up pot-holes, speed bumps, and
even curbs with relative ease. If forced off the road by a car, I can
bunny-hop up the curb or ride over an irregular dirt sholder with no
problem.

Now for any distance riding (over 30 miles), I will take a bent any
day. I would not even consider a Century ride on a DF or MTB (I've
done plenty on both and never again).

As far as choosing a MTB: Quality dual suspension MTBs can more be
expensive than a bent. Walmart quality ones can weigh as much as a
Buick, and will not last long. You get more bike for your money with
a front suspension only MTB, and get a good quality suspension seat
post (I prefer one of the Cane Creek models). Check MTBR.com for
reviews on MTBs, suspension, and more.

Bottom line: Pick the best tool for your needs.


Rocketman58



"EVsolutions" wrote in message ers.com...
This Subject line is Not really the best way to get the attention of anyone
anywhere but here. Since there is no 24 hour Bent emergency Hotline (yet),
this will have to do.

Situation is this...I have been having strong urges these last few weeks to
buy a MTB, one that has shocks fore and aft.
While such a purchase may not seem like a big deal to anyone else, in my
case I have been bent for 26 years and for many of those years I would have
opted for falling on a pointed stick before I'd return to riding a DF again.

What has lead me to this point of despair are the driving conditions on my
daily grind. The streets have gone without resurfacing for 6 years, potholes
now house young familes, road cuts have shredded 2 of my Avocet Cross tires
in the last few months. Best of all while riding one of my USS tadpoles, the
entire steering system failed...tie rod broke and the handlebars actually
broke apart (metal fatique). I have had axles breaking when the wheels got
caught in streetcar rails. I had a car driver throw HER car in
reverse...almost bought the farm there, luckily I had the thought to hurl a
12V Lead Acid battery through her rear window (to get her attention).

I now have 4 dead bents (3 trikes), all need major welding and even once
that is done...it is back to the awful roads.

Then I see this Dual Suspension MTB for less than the cost of my 2 front 406
wheels and the mind starts a thinking maybe going to a DF ain't such a bad
thing afterall.

I should be waving to Ed Dolan by now on my trek to the Pacific and not
still stuck in Toronto living on donuts & getting an erection for a MTB.
(the trek was delayed because the framebuilder could not get the tandem done
before October and no bloody way am I driving in the snow through Wyoming).

I mean I don't have to turn in my Bent Rider Decoder ring just because I go
slightly insane and buy a MTB... okay in my case MORE insane.

I suspect lots of you bent persons have a DF stashed away for secret rides
when no one is watching.

I will have to change my route to avoid passing my local bent dealer and I
guess wear a disguise so the local bent folk do not recognize me on my rides
of shame.

It might also be a sign of my getting old and feeble minded....Nah

I have ALSO been lusting after a GIANT "Stiletto", tis a 2005 Chopper bike
that with the BB raised only a 3 inches can be a Recumbent. This bike is
soooo cool looking, but probably rides like a Pig.

I did ask a friend with a CAT "Sport" and he suggested I stay bent. He says
I owe it to all the people who went bent after seeing me ride one. Something
about how people see me and realize if that fat old ******* can ride without
falling off...anyone can do it.

My luck I'll get a MTB and fall off and be run over by a guy driving a
BikeE.

So my question is....do I get the MTB and ride the daily grind knowing I
won't wipe out on the awful roads OR do I get the trikes repaired and abuse
them for another winter?

I do NOT assume everyone here will say stay bent, because I'm sure many of
you have roads to ride on that are just as screwed up as mine are.

All I need is a few people to sway me...hey I'm easily swayed if the reply
makes sense.

Don't want this turning into a 4 day thread, a few replies will do and YES
Edward I will heed your advice which tends to make sense about cycling.

OT: the constant bashing of Edward Dolan does get to me a bit, but Edward is
just as needed on ARBR as anyone else...more so in someways. I could be full
of Sh*t on this, but Edward acts as a cohesive thread in a Forum that can so
easily become as exciting as watching Golf on TV. I remember back 3 years
when for a time ARBR was nothing but questions and answers about crank
lengths and airfeee tires and Boeshield...ARBR got so bloody technical it
was as if you'd stepped into the Call Center for a company that made an
electrical product that was malfunctioning.

Martin K. did not create ARBR to be a 100% technical forum, it was to share
"experiences" while riding, to talk about the twit with SUV looking at a
Playboy doing 50 mph on the wrong side of the street....AND to share
technical information about which cranks are best.
All Edward is doing is keeping ARBR closer to what ARBR was supposed be all
about. Granted he does get under the skin of some people and he does appear
to enjoy himself here way more than anyone should...but he has been around
the block for years longer than lots of us, so cut the old geezer some slack
sometimes. This NOT to say anyone should get all mushy and say sweet things
to him....he'll think you are French and take you apart. The man loves a
good fight and if my grammar was as good as his I'd love to wipe the floor
with him and he'd love it.

ARBR needs a balance and Edward Dolan and a few others (even Fast Freddie
when he gets going) act as that balance.

So pleeeeez don't ever stop asking questions about ways to make your bent
run smoother or posting For Sale notices, we need to keep ARBR vital for the
continued growth of our bent community. We also NEED to strike a balance,
talk about your daily grind on your bent, talk about Cletus Lee and his
Osprey encounters, the deer you almost wiped out on riding the trails, the
rolling Hills that went on and on through Amish country, the fresh fruit
stand by the road where you bought an apple.

Make ARBR interesting and keep it a board you want to return to. Some folks
here have made life long friendships, visit one another, setup group rides.
Stories people share on ARBR can take you places in your imagination that
one day you will take your bent to.

Eeeek 1:20 am, she who must be obeyed will wake and see me on the PC and I
will be slaughtered...Nite

Joshua
******

EVsolutions wrote:

This Subject line is Not really the best way to get the attention of anyone
anywhere but here. Since there is no 24 hour Bent emergency Hotline (yet),
this will have to do.

Situation is this...I have been having strong urges these last few weeks to
buy a MTB, one that has shocks fore and aft.
While such a purchase may not seem like a big deal to anyone else, in my
case I have been bent for 26 years and for many of those years I would have
opted for falling on a pointed stick before I'd return to riding a DF again.

What has lead me to this point of despair are the driving conditions on my
daily grind. The streets have gone without resurfacing for 6 years, potholes
now house young familes, road cuts have shredded 2 of my Avocet Cross tires
in the last few months. Best of all while riding one of my USS tadpoles, the
entire steering system failed...tie rod broke and the handlebars actually
broke apart (metal fatique). I have had axles breaking when the wheels got
caught in streetcar rails. I had a car driver throw HER car in
reverse...almost bought the farm there, luckily I had the thought to hurl a
12V Lead Acid battery through her rear window (to get her attention).

I now have 4 dead bents (3 trikes), all need major welding and even once
that is done...it is back to the awful roads.

Then I see this Dual Suspension MTB for less than the cost of my 2 front 406
wheels and the mind starts a thinking maybe going to a DF ain't such a bad
thing afterall.

I should be waving to Ed Dolan by now on my trek to the Pacific and not
still stuck in Toronto living on donuts & getting an erection for a MTB.
(the trek was delayed because the framebuilder could not get the tandem done
before October and no bloody way am I driving in the snow through Wyoming).

I mean I don't have to turn in my Bent Rider Decoder ring just because I go
slightly insane and buy a MTB... okay in my case MORE insane.

I suspect lots of you bent persons have a DF stashed away for secret rides
when no one is watching.

I will have to change my route to avoid passing my local bent dealer and I
guess wear a disguise so the local bent folk do not recognize me on my rides
of shame.

It might also be a sign of my getting old and feeble minded....Nah

I have ALSO been lusting after a GIANT "Stiletto", tis a 2005 Chopper bike
that with the BB raised only a 3 inches can be a Recumbent. This bike is
soooo cool looking, but probably rides like a Pig.

I did ask a friend with a CAT "Sport" and he suggested I stay bent. He says
I owe it to all the people who went bent after seeing me ride one. Something
about how people see me and realize if that fat old ******* can ride without
falling off...anyone can do it.

My luck I'll get a MTB and fall off and be run over by a guy driving a
BikeE.

So my question is....do I get the MTB and ride the daily grind knowing I
won't wipe out on the awful roads OR do I get the trikes repaired and abuse
them for another winter?

I do NOT assume everyone here will say stay bent, because I'm sure many of
you have roads to ride on that are just as screwed up as mine are.

All I need is a few people to sway me...hey I'm easily swayed if the reply
makes sense.

Don't want this turning into a 4 day thread, a few replies will do and YES
Edward I will heed your advice which tends to make sense about cycling.

OT: the constant bashing of Edward Dolan does get to me a bit, but Edward is
just as needed on ARBR as anyone else...more so in someways. I could be full
of Sh*t on this, but Edward acts as a cohesive thread in a Forum that can so
easily become as exciting as watching Golf on TV. I remember back 3 years
when for a time ARBR was nothing but questions and answers about crank
lengths and airfeee tires and Boeshield...ARBR got so bloody technical it
was as if you'd stepped into the Call Center for a company that made an
electrical product that was malfunctioning.

Martin K. did not create ARBR to be a 100% technical forum, it was to share
"experiences" while riding, to talk about the twit with SUV looking at a
Playboy doing 50 mph on the wrong side of the street....AND to share
technical information about which cranks are best.
All Edward is doing is keeping ARBR closer to what ARBR was supposed be all
about. Granted he does get under the skin of some people and he does appear
to enjoy himself here way more than anyone should...but he has been around
the block for years longer than lots of us, so cut the old geezer some slack
sometimes. This NOT to say anyone should get all mushy and say sweet things
to him....he'll think you are French and take you apart. The man loves a
good fight and if my grammar was as good as his I'd love to wipe the floor
with him and he'd love it.

ARBR needs a balance and Edward Dolan and a few others (even Fast Freddie
when he gets going) act as that balance.

So pleeeeez don't ever stop asking questions about ways to make your bent
run smoother or posting For Sale notices, we need to keep ARBR vital for the
continued growth of our bent community. We also NEED to strike a balance,
talk about your daily grind on your bent, talk about Cletus Lee and his
Osprey encounters, the deer you almost wiped out on riding the trails, the
rolling Hills that went on and on through Amish country, the fresh fruit
stand by the road where you bought an apple.

Make ARBR interesting and keep it a board you want to return to. Some folks
here have made life long friendships, visit one another, setup group rides.
Stories people share on ARBR can take you places in your imagination that
one day you will take your bent to.

Eeeek 1:20 am, she who must be obeyed will wake and see me on the PC and I
will be slaughtered...Nite

Joshua
******


They're just bicycles, man. Who cares. I LOVE DF bikes! They solve a
really incisive problem in a really simple way (just jump over the
obstacle). 'Bents solve a somewhat different problem in an equally
simple way (up-sitting has some gravity-dependent consequences) by
simply laying on your back. Clearly there are circumstances where one
solution is in tension with the other, so it's a straightforward
judgment call based on an equally straightforward analysis. Just solve
your problem. Forget about alliances.

--
Email me at
(Just remember to "cut the tail" before sending.)