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State your opinion on COVID-19



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 28th 20, 05:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default State your opinion on COVID-19


As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by
some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs,
defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions.
Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary
seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give
their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a
ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who
(almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and
has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #2  
Old March 28th 20, 05:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On Saturday, 28 March 2020 12:01:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by
some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs,
defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions.
Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary
seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give
their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a
ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who
(almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and
has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage.

--
- Frank Krygowski


I think that this COVID-19 virus is a lot more serious than governments are letting on. I also think that the various governments have really dropped the ball by allow people to come back into the country and then relying on those people to self quarantine for 14 days. We've seen how well that's worked with people already in the country going out and about as if everything is normal even though they should be in quarantine.

I remember reading many years ago that experts in diseases were saying that the next pandemic was only an airplane flight away. Well folks, looks like they were right and that the pandemic is here.

Look after yourselves and the best of luck in avoiding becoming a bad statistic.

Cheers
  #3  
Old March 28th 20, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality
himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change but
having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my
point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant
one at that) to fewer people.

see also:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png

If influenza were unknown until this year, people would
freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead.

If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do
something about the even larger number of Americans who die
annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is
not getting smaller year over year- it's growing.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #4  
Old March 28th 20, 08:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 840
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the
numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]


Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week
in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the
public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers
don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


but having known
people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that
it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people.

see also:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png


If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at
forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead.

If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the
even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired
infection_.Â* That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's
growing.


  #5  
Old March 28th 20, 08:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality
himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]


Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling
each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential
growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute
numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


but having known
people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was
merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at
that) to fewer people.

see also:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png


If influenza were unknown until this year, people would
freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans
dead.

If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do
something about the even larger number of Americans who
die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That
number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing.



Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political
correctness infestation. From WMAL today:

https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/

Headline:
"Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by
geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore"

Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school
logic class:
"During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the
disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in
countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned
businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns."

I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it.

Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use
"the French disease".


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old March 28th 20, 09:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On Saturday, 28 March 2020 15:34:25 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality
himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]


Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling
each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential
growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute
numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


but having known
people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was
merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at
that) to fewer people.

see also:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png


If influenza were unknown until this year, people would
freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans
dead.

If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do
something about the even larger number of Americans who
die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That
number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing.



Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political
correctness infestation. From WMAL today:

https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/

Headline:
"Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by
geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore"

Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school
logic class:
"During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the
disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in
countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned
businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns."

I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it.

Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use
"the French disease".


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I used to live in Toronto, Canada in the Broadview & Dundas/Broadview & Gerrard area. It became know as Chinatown #2 or East Chinatown. The Chinese took over the transit shelters and set up shop in them and sold all sorts of stuff including live ducks. The offal and the stench were something that has to experienced to be believed. In summer on the weekends you couldn't keep a window open even though you lived a few blocks away from the main street. The illegal shops were so prevalent and sprawling on the sidewalks that in many cases pedestrians had to venture out onto the roadway in order to get past them. Having experienced that, I don't wonder that diseases spread so quickly.

Cheers
  #7  
Old March 28th 20, 09:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the
numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]


Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week
in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the
public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers
don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


Plus, the whole idea with these Draconian measures is to limit the damage. If we don't have the damage, that means the measures were successful and not that the measures were unnecessary -- unless there is data indicating that the whole thing is a hoax or that the expected infection/mortality rates without treatment were miscalculated. What we need is a clinical trial. No masks, social distancing, closed business, extra ventilators, etc.,for some big city. Party on! Then lock-down another big city and fill it with medical equipment and hand sanitizer and then check the mortality rates in six months. Control for temperature and region. Obvious choice would be Huston and Dallas or maybe Minneapolis and St. Paul. Nobody could switch cities.

I'm very pleased to have bought a bag of rice today at the local Safeway. It was the last one on the shelf -- a lone bag of Thai jasmine rice. No plain old rice. Lots of produce and other good stuff. The horders are really into rice, beans and toilet paper -- which makes a great high-fiber casserole. Tons of people were out walking around. We had this little pedestrian traffic jam on one of our neighborhood walks with everyone trying to sort-out how to maintain social distancing.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #8  
Old March 28th 20, 10:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On 3/28/2020 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the
numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]


Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week
in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the
public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers
don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


Plus, the whole idea with these Draconian measures is to limit the damage. If we don't have the damage, that means the measures were successful and not that the measures were unnecessary -- unless there is data indicating that the whole thing is a hoax or that the expected infection/mortality rates without treatment were miscalculated. What we need is a clinical trial. No masks, social distancing, closed business, extra ventilators, etc.,for some big city. Party on! Then lock-down another big city and fill it with medical equipment and hand sanitizer and then check the mortality rates in six months. Control for temperature and region. Obvious choice would be Huston and Dallas or maybe Minneapolis and St. Paul. Nobody could switch cities.

I'm very pleased to have bought a bag of rice today at the local Safeway. It was the last one on the shelf -- a lone bag of Thai jasmine rice. No plain old rice. Lots of produce and other good stuff. The horders are really into rice, beans and toilet paper -- which makes a great high-fiber casserole. Tons of people were out walking around. We had this little pedestrian traffic jam on one of our neighborhood walks with everyone trying to sort-out how to maintain social distancing.

-- Jay Beattie.



I don't know but I suppose some of you survivors will think
of us when it's over. Meanwhile Sweden seems inclined to be
a counter test (as I linked earlier) and Greenland will
probably be first with accurate whole-population ratios.

And situations on the ground are very different one place to
another. My daughter mentioned the dearth of TP on Chicago's
north side to her friend in Kansas who mailed (!) some to
her. Never asked me. Our local groceries are thin of some
things but I haven't seen anything to zero. I was at a
Walgreens across from a grocery and that place was empty of
many items including all paper products. Literally a few
hundred feet away the Kroger manager had ample supplies.
I'm not ready to make any broad judgement on this panic
buying frenzy just yet.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #9  
Old March 28th 20, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On 3/28/2020 5:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the
numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]

Sadly, give it a week or two.Â* Cases are roughly quadrupling each week
in the US [based on CDC reports].Â* Exponential growth doesn't catch the
public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers
don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


Plus, the whole idea with these Draconian measures is to limit the
damage.Â* If we don't have the damage, that means the measures were
successful and not that the measures were unnecessary -- unless there
is data indicating that the whole thing is a hoax or that the expected
infection/mortality rates without treatment were miscalculated.Â* What
we need is a clinical trial. No masks, social distancing, closed
business, extra ventilators, etc.,for some big city. Party on! Then
lock-down another big city and fill it with medical equipment and hand
sanitizer and then check the mortality rates in six months. Control
for temperature and region.Â* Obvious choice would be Huston and Dallas
or maybe Minneapolis and St. Paul. Nobody could switch cities.

I'm very pleased to have bought a bag of rice today at the local
Safeway.Â* It was the last one on the shelf -- a lone bag of Thai
jasmine rice.Â* No plain old rice. Lots of produce and other good
stuff.Â* The horders are really into rice, beans and toilet paper --
which makes a great high-fiber casserole.Â* Tons of people were out
walking around. We had this little pedestrian traffic jam on one of
our neighborhood walks with everyone trying to sort-out how to
maintain social distancing.

-- Jay Beattie.



I don't know but I suppose some of you survivors will think of us when
it's over.


Does the "us" in that sentence refer to people who are refusing
recommended health strategies?

It might be good to know who here is still engaging in close contact
with lots of the general public, attending parties, dating lots of new
partners, visiting sick relatives, never washing hands, licking
doorknobs, whatever.

You know, vs. who is doing what most medical experts say we should.
Maybe we can do our own mini-study. Check back six months from now and
see how everyone's doing.

We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated picnic. She
has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to eat. Other friends
(we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as careful, but no masks.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #10  
Old March 28th 20, 11:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default State your opinion on COVID-19

On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:34:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name
calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick
political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know
better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured.

So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and
from Andrew.

Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an
ordinary seasonal flu?

Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very
welcome to give their opinion too.

BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive
care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend,
one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides.
He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a
daily commuter, fast and high mileage.


Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality
himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far.

I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...]


Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling
each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential
growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute
numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long.

We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers.

Mark J.


but having known
people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was
merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at
that) to fewer people.

see also:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png


If influenza were unknown until this year, people would
freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans
dead.

If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do
something about the even larger number of Americans who
die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That
number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing.



Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political
correctness infestation. From WMAL today:

https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/

Headline:
"Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by
geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore"

Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school
logic class:
"During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the
disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in
countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned
businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns."

I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it.

Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use
"the French disease".


And the French used to refer to "the English disease" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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