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"speeding cyclists on towpath"



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 2nd 04, 11:34 PM
Paul Luton
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At the Richmond Cycle Liaison Meeting on Tuesday the Council have an agenda
item "speeding cyclists on Barnes - Putney towpath ; how to improve
pedestrian safety". I suspect this is in response to complaints by a
local member of the Ramblers Association and will be asking if they have
any data or record of any injuries. The current Council are hostile to
cycling and have have recently vetoed a Sustrans Route across Barnes Common
Should I suggest a separate bike track ( nature conservation issues, not
much room) or improved surfacing to make it a less exciting ride - shared
tarmac surfaces seem to cause fewer complaints) Any comment welcomed,

Paul Luton


--
CTC Right to Ride Representative for Richmond upon Thames
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  #2  
Old January 3rd 04, 11:34 AM
elyob
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"Paul Luton" wrote in message
...
At the Richmond Cycle Liaison Meeting on Tuesday the Council have an

agenda
item "speeding cyclists on Barnes - Putney towpath ; how to improve
pedestrian safety". I suspect this is in response to complaints by a
local member of the Ramblers Association and will be asking if they have
any data or record of any injuries. The current Council are hostile to
cycling and have have recently vetoed a Sustrans Route across Barnes

Common
Should I suggest a separate bike track ( nature conservation issues, not
much room) or improved surfacing to make it a less exciting ride - shared
tarmac surfaces seem to cause fewer complaints) Any comment welcomed,


Miserable buggers around this part of the world, aren't they!

I'd suggest that they accept cycling along the route, as people will still
cycle there whether it's allowed or not. Tarmacing would be disastrous, and
would make it a lot speedier IMO.

The first part of the Kingston-Richmond path has a ped & cycle path and a
seperate ped only path. I often see cyclists on the ped part. I often see
ramblers *badly rambling* on the shared cycle/ped path. Unfortunately, it'll
never be improved until peds realise they need to be awake and alert. It
always baffles me how many of them walk blindly, despite having had 100+
cycles pass them an hour.

I would suggest that the council take a leaf out of the police book, get a
warden on a bike and fine people who ride dangerously.

I've had to put a bell on my bike


  #3  
Old January 3rd 04, 12:27 PM
Tony Raven
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elyob wrote:

Unfortunately, it'll
never be improved until peds realise they need to be awake and alert. It
always baffles me how many of them walk blindly, despite having had 100+
cycles pass them an hour.


The good old transport heirarchy with peds at the bottom, cyclists in the
middle and motorised vehicles at the top ;-)

Tony


  #4  
Old January 3rd 04, 01:46 PM
Howard
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Hi there,

Try suggesting that pedestrians be 'encouraged' to dress in
flourescent yellow so 'speeding cyclists' can 'see' them more easily
and to wear 'walking helmets' to protect them should they 'be involved
in a collision' with a cyclist! You could also try asking why a
cyclist is considerd to be 'speeding' when they are doing perhaps 14
or 15 MPH whilst it is though acceptable to allow cars to do 30 MPH in
the vicinity of pedestrians and 50mph plus when passing cyclists on
narrow country roads!

Seriously, you could draw attention to the very small number of
pedestrians who are injured each year in the UK after being in
collision with a cyclist, in 2001 in the whole of the UK there were
only 64 recorded injury accidents on footways, including those that
occured on shared use paths where the pedestrian may well have
contributed to the collision. In comparison about 50 people a year are
killed by motor vehicles and 3500 injured whilst walking on a footway
and another 80 or so killed and 4300 injured by motor vehicle drivers
whilst using a pedestrian crossing.

Also look at DfT Traffic Advisory leaflet 'Cycling in pedestrian areas
at

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ds_504728.hcsp

This concludes:

'Observation revealed no real factors to justify excluding cyclists
from pedestrianised areas, suggesting that cycling could be more
widely permitted without detriment to pedestrians;'

Also Countryside agency research note crn 'How people interact on
off-road routes'

http://www.countryside.gov.uk/Public..._tcm2-4634.asp


And CRN69. 'User interaction on non-motorized shared use routes at

http://www.countryside.gov.uk/Public..._tcm2-7452.asp

These show that pedestrians tend to perceive the risk of interacting
with cyclists to be much higher then it actually is, that pedestrians
exaggerate incidences of 'conflict' when talking about them to others
and that the real problem is not the 'risk' cyclists pose to other
path users but the attitudes of other users to cyclists... They also
give useful information on how 'conflict' can be reduced.


Hope this is useful.

Howard.
  #5  
Old January 3rd 04, 02:33 PM
Helen Deborah Vecht
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Default "speeding cyclists on towpath"

I went to watch the Boat Race at Barnes (where an erstwhile schoolmate
lives) last Spring. I am now a rather wobbly pedestrian. The spectating
crowds were intimidated by people speeding on bicycles. I was certainly
baulked.

I know that the Boat Race does not happen every day. Few sensible
cyclists would have gone anywhere near the melée, and certainly not at
speed.

The fact is that not everyone on a bicycle behaves as we would wish.

If I lived in Barnes, I would rightly feel aggrieved by th behaviour of
those who ride bicycles there.

I also noticed some of the narrowest and most dangerous 'farcilities'
for cyclists on my visit that day.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.
  #6  
Old January 3rd 04, 03:15 PM
Steve R.
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Howard wrote in message ...
only 64 recorded injury accidents on footways, including those that
occured on shared use paths where the pedestrian may well have
contributed to the collision.


Like you said *RECORDED* accidents. They have to be pretty serious to be
*recorded* so you know it's going to be TEN to TWENTY TIMES that *recorded*
number of actual accidents.


  #7  
Old January 3rd 04, 03:22 PM
Tony Raven
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Default "speeding cyclists on towpath"

Howard wrote:

Seriously, you could draw attention to the very small number of
pedestrians who are injured each year in the UK after being in
collision with a cyclist, in 2001 in the whole of the UK there were
only 64 recorded injury accidents on footways, including those that
occured on shared use paths where the pedestrian may well have
contributed to the collision. In comparison about 50 people a year are
killed by motor vehicles and 3500 injured whilst walking on a footway
and another 80 or so killed and 4300 injured by motor vehicle drivers
whilst using a pedestrian crossing.


That's still 64 too many and pro-rata'd for the respective mileages of
bicycles and motor vehicles, comparable. As cyclists we should give
pedestrians the same respect that we would like motorists to give to us.

Tony


  #8  
Old January 3rd 04, 03:52 PM
Just zis Guy, you know?
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On 3 Jan 2004 04:46:59 -0800, (Howard)
wrote:

in 2001 in the whole of the UK there were
only 64 recorded injury accidents on footways


Is this injury of peds by cyclists?

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
  #9  
Old January 3rd 04, 03:55 PM
Just zis Guy, you know?
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Default "speeding cyclists on towpath"

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:15:38 GMT, "Steve R."
wrote:

Like you said *RECORDED* accidents. They have to be pretty serious to be
*recorded* so you know it's going to be TEN to TWENTY TIMES that *recorded*
number of actual accidents.


Of the 186 people killed on footways in the period 1998-2001, 185 were
killed by motor vehicles and one by a cyclist. That was the last set
of figures I have seen which records /any/ fatality caused by a
cyclist.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
  #10  
Old January 3rd 04, 04:24 PM
Tony Raven
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Default "speeding cyclists on towpath"

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

Of the 186 people killed on footways in the period 1998-2001, 185 were
killed by motor vehicles and one by a cyclist. That was the last set
of figures I have seen which records /any/ fatality caused by a
cyclist.


The best cyclist figures I have are from Hansard 1999

Tony

Bicycle Accidents

Mr. Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and
the Regions how many pedestrians have been (a) killed and (b) seriously
injured (i) in accidents involving bicycles ridden on pavements and (ii) by
bicycles ridden on the road when the cyclist was at fault, in each of the last
five years. [89538]

Ms Glenda Jackson: The party at fault in a road accident is not recorded on a
national basis.

However, the numbers of pedestrians recorded as being killed and seriously
injured who were hit on the footway or verge by bicycles are shown in the
table.

Pedestrians hit by pedal cyclists on the footway or verge
Casualty severity
Year Fatal Serious
1994 1 30
1995 1 36
1996 0 23
1997 1 36
1998 1 23

The following table shows the numbers of pedestrians recorded as being hit
while in the carriageway.

Pedestrians hit by pedal cyclists in the carriageway
Casualty severity
Year Fatal Serious
1994 3 68
1995 3 62
1996 2 63
1997 1 54
1998 1 45

Mr. Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and
the Regions how many cyclists have been (a) killed and (b) seriously injured
in accidents on roads or cycle paths when the pedestrian was at fault in each
of the last five years. [89539]

Ms Glenda Jackson: The party at fault in a road accident is not recorded on a
national basis.

However, the table shows the numbers of cyclists recorded as being killed or
seriously injured on the carriageway or cycleway in accidents which involved a
pedestrian and did not involve any motor vehicles. These numbers do not
include casualties on cycleways which are segregated from the public road.

Cyclist casualties in accidents involving a pedestrian and not involving a
motor vehicle
Casualty severity
Year Fatal Serious
1994 0 14
1995 1 19
1996 1 15
1997 3 15
1998 0 14




 




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