A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » UK
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why don't cyclists learn to use their brakes?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old November 20th 11, 11:01 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,275
Default Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?

dr6092 wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:16 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
dr6092 wrote:
On Nov 18, 8:59 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:


If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why
not?


Indeed, why not.


Doesn't mean that he didn't or that doing so must always be correct
and sufficient. Believing it from the armchair without relevant
experience does not make it so.


How could he brake while banging on the car roof?


Sigh. It is likely that being in traffic he would have been doing
15-20mph to begin with. He would have braked to a much lower speed
initially but as the car was also braking it did not get past him.
Since he was given no room, he was unable to steer a trajectory that
could both move him left and shift his balance to his left. At a low
speed, he had no options left.


Strange, when Simon tells us how he can so easily outbrake anything else on
the road.
Even if the car was braking it would still be best for the cyclist to keep
on braking and keep his hands on the steering controls.


Ads
  #52  
Old November 20th 11, 11:30 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,576
Default Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash intocyclists?

On 20/11/2011 09:01, Doug wrote:

wrote:
Doug wrote:
wrote:


[ ... ]


If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not?


Because there is only one victim and there should be a duty of care
towards them. A cyclist shouldn't have to slam on his brakes when a
motorist cuts him up or doors him. The fault lies solely with the
motorist who should take the blame.


Let's get this 100% straight:


You say that a cyclist should not apply his brakes and instead should hit
whatever is in front of him, causing damage to the property of others and
himelf and potentially risking - perhaps quite serious - injury, simply
out of misplaced "principle"?


No you are deliberately misrepresenting me as usual.


I am asking you to clarify your position.

In such a situation a
cyclist will slam on his brakes but it will be too late to avoid a crash due
to the carelessness of the driver.


"Will"? Or "should"?

Irrespective of what he might or will do, *should* he brake? You seem to
suggest that you don't believe that he should and that somehow, the die is cast.

People make mistakes when driving and riding, it happens, learn to ride
and drive defensively and most crashes can be avoided.


This is about the crashes that can't be avoided so don't try and make
excuses for the killers and injurers of cyclists.


Most traffic accidents can be avoided. Even where they cannot be totally
avoided, they can be mitigated. The easiest method of mitigation is to
reduce the impact speed as far as possible. That makes braking as hard as
possible.


It is the impact speed of the crashing driver than counts.


Is the combined impact speed which counts. There are not two kinds of impact
speed.

Let me tell you something: if, as a driver, I had adopted your "It's my
right of way, I shouldn't have to brake so I'm not going to" approach,
several careless pedestrians and cyclists I have happened upon over the
years would either have been dead or seriously injured. Thank God I
didn't take your line, eh?


You just don't get it do you. What is it about 'duty of care towards
vulnerable cyclists' you do not understand?


That is 100% nonsense unless the phrase "vulnerable cyclists" is expunged and
replaced by "other road-users".

How many more times??? If there is a crash between a motorist and a cyclist
there is only one victim,


Wrong.

There can easily be two or more victims. Three victims minimum if the car
belongs to someone other than the driver (a situation which arises more often
than you seem to think).

the cyclist and the motorist remains uninjured.


Being injured is not the only way to be a victim.
  #53  
Old November 20th 11, 11:33 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,242
Default Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?

On Nov 19, 1:16*pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,


What you are doing is what (in California at least), the Yanks call
"defensive driving". And if in the event of an accident it can be shown
that you did not do what you reasonably could to mitigate the accident,
your share of the blame goes up. And this is entirely as it should be.
The "duty of care" notion is entire bull****.


Which of course explains why the US has a much better road safety
record than the UK, and why cyclists and pedestrians are so much more
at risk in places like Netherlands where they have strict liability.


Oh, wait, no, it's exactly the other way round.


Perhaps the US model is not quite so compelling after all.


I don't know about the US in general, but I do know about California,
having lived there. IME drivers slowed down and stopped the minute a
pedestrian was anywhere in the roadway. Drivers always pulled over and
stopped for any emergency vehicle too [1]. I think their road signage
sucked but driver behaviour was typically much better.

Strict liability, eh? Remind me never to drive in the Netherlands.

[1] Too bad that doesn't happen here, where people seem to think they
are being helpful by driving along in front of the emergency vehicle.


Didn't someone get nabbed for driving through a red light in an
attempt to clear the way for an ambulance?

--
Simon Mason
  #54  
Old November 20th 11, 11:46 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Dave - Cyclists VOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,703
Default Why don't cyclists learn to use their brains?

On 16/11/2011 08:31, Mrcheerful wrote:
"the driver cut in as he overtook me.
"I shouted out a warning and knocked on the roof of the car, but the driver
continued to cut in and struck the bike, causing me to fall to the
pavement."

If you have time enough to shout and bang on the car, then why on Earth are
you not keeping your hands on the handlebars and braking?

He sounds like a Simon, an accident waiting to happen

http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s...t_poor_driving


Clear case for cycle training & regulation.

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University
  #55  
Old November 20th 11, 11:50 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,242
Default Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes andnot crash into cyclists?)

On Nov 19, 8:30*am, "Doug" wrote:
On 19-Nov-2011, Mick the Moderator wrote:





Message-ID:


It appears that the above post was an abusive or trolling messsage from
Doug, a known serial offender. We apologise for any distress this
obnoxious message may have caused, it has now been reported to

as a violation of their acceptable use policy. This does not preclude
additional
reports of this abuse, should you feel so motivated.


Thank you for your patience during this hopefully brief interruption to
your usenet pleasure.
--
Mick the Moderator
pp. the Hon. Nigel P. Smallpiece (CEO), Knotty Ash Enterprises plc,
England


Why don't you get a life, troll?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling.

--
Simon Mason
  #56  
Old November 20th 11, 01:09 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?[_33_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,386
Default Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:33:30 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

Didn't someone get nabbed for driving through a red light in an
attempt to clear the way for an ambulance?


Yes. It was later quashed in court.

Guy
--
Guy Chapman, http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
The usenet price promise: all opinions are guaranteed
to be worth at least what you paid for them.
  #57  
Old November 20th 11, 01:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,000
Default Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?)

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

On Nov 19, 8:30*am, "Doug" wrote:
On 19-Nov-2011, Mick the Moderator wrote:





Message-ID:


It appears that the above post was an abusive or trolling messsage from
Doug, a known serial offender. We apologise for any distress this
obnoxious message may have caused, it has now been reported to

as a violation of their acceptable use policy. This does not preclude
additional
reports of this abuse, should you feel so motivated.


Thank you for your patience during this hopefully brief interruption to
your usenet pleasure.
--
Mick the Moderator
pp. the Hon. Nigel P. Smallpiece (CEO), Knotty Ash Enterprises plc,
England


Why don't you get a life, troll?

Doug.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling.



I wonder how you know that ?

You need to get a life sunshine.

--
"You get a real feeling of elation just for the simple act of cycling past the local hospital
where there are people of my age who have abused their bodies and suffered all sorts of ailments"

Simon Mason
  #58  
Old November 20th 11, 01:56 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?[_33_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,386
Default Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?)

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling.


Which appears to have stopped following comments on this group, which
demonstrates that unlike JMS, medjob and cheerless, to name but three,
the responsible party can at least take a hint.

Guy
--
Guy Chapman, http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
The usenet price promise: all opinions are guaranteed
to be worth at least what you paid for them.
  #59  
Old November 20th 11, 02:26 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Weaseltemper[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 951
Default Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes andnot crash into cyclists?)

On 20/11/2011 12:56, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling.


Which appears to have stopped following comments on this group, which
demonstrates that unlike JMS, medjob and cheerless, to name but three,
the responsible party can at least take a hint.


Those three do not take hints, they need the law acting on them. Which
is fine, but it takes time. Often several years from outset but it is
worth it in the end.


--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.
  #60  
Old November 20th 11, 02:36 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,275
Default Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?)

Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 12:56, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling.


Which appears to have stopped following comments on this group, which
demonstrates that unlike JMS, medjob and cheerless, to name but
three, the responsible party can at least take a hint.


Those three do not take hints, they need the law acting on them. Which
is fine, but it takes time. Often several years from outset but it is
worth it in the end.


tell me: Why don't all these cyclists that I offend go to the moderated
group and chat to each other there? I promise that I won't post to that
group. Please also feel free to point out any post of mine which directly
attacks or harrasses any individual. or any which use abusive language.

Mrcheerful


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
up the inside of a lorry at a junction, when will cyclists learn? Mrcheerful[_2_] UK 59 February 18th 11 06:44 PM
When will these cyclists learn that going over the handlebars does not happen. Mrcheerful[_2_] UK 21 January 30th 11 12:17 AM
when will cyclists learn? don't go up the inside of buses and do wear a helmet, it is not rocket science. Mrcheerful[_2_] UK 17 August 29th 10 11:43 PM
when will cyclists learn that pedestrian crossings are for .....pedestrians, not cyclists Mrcheerful[_2_] UK 7 August 12th 10 07:08 AM
Delta Brakes for sale, capy c group brakes vintage! [email protected] Marketplace 0 December 1st 08 01:47 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.