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#51
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Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?
dr6092 wrote:
On Nov 18, 12:16 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote: dr6092 wrote: On Nov 18, 8:59 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote: If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not? Indeed, why not. Doesn't mean that he didn't or that doing so must always be correct and sufficient. Believing it from the armchair without relevant experience does not make it so. How could he brake while banging on the car roof? Sigh. It is likely that being in traffic he would have been doing 15-20mph to begin with. He would have braked to a much lower speed initially but as the car was also braking it did not get past him. Since he was given no room, he was unable to steer a trajectory that could both move him left and shift his balance to his left. At a low speed, he had no options left. Strange, when Simon tells us how he can so easily outbrake anything else on the road. Even if the car was braking it would still be best for the cyclist to keep on braking and keep his hands on the steering controls. |
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#52
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Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash intocyclists?
On 20/11/2011 09:01, Doug wrote:
wrote: Doug wrote: wrote: [ ... ] If by merely applying the brakes you can avoid a crash, then why not? Because there is only one victim and there should be a duty of care towards them. A cyclist shouldn't have to slam on his brakes when a motorist cuts him up or doors him. The fault lies solely with the motorist who should take the blame. Let's get this 100% straight: You say that a cyclist should not apply his brakes and instead should hit whatever is in front of him, causing damage to the property of others and himelf and potentially risking - perhaps quite serious - injury, simply out of misplaced "principle"? No you are deliberately misrepresenting me as usual. I am asking you to clarify your position. In such a situation a cyclist will slam on his brakes but it will be too late to avoid a crash due to the carelessness of the driver. "Will"? Or "should"? Irrespective of what he might or will do, *should* he brake? You seem to suggest that you don't believe that he should and that somehow, the die is cast. People make mistakes when driving and riding, it happens, learn to ride and drive defensively and most crashes can be avoided. This is about the crashes that can't be avoided so don't try and make excuses for the killers and injurers of cyclists. Most traffic accidents can be avoided. Even where they cannot be totally avoided, they can be mitigated. The easiest method of mitigation is to reduce the impact speed as far as possible. That makes braking as hard as possible. It is the impact speed of the crashing driver than counts. Is the combined impact speed which counts. There are not two kinds of impact speed. Let me tell you something: if, as a driver, I had adopted your "It's my right of way, I shouldn't have to brake so I'm not going to" approach, several careless pedestrians and cyclists I have happened upon over the years would either have been dead or seriously injured. Thank God I didn't take your line, eh? You just don't get it do you. What is it about 'duty of care towards vulnerable cyclists' you do not understand? That is 100% nonsense unless the phrase "vulnerable cyclists" is expunged and replaced by "other road-users". How many more times??? If there is a crash between a motorist and a cyclist there is only one victim, Wrong. There can easily be two or more victims. Three victims minimum if the car belongs to someone other than the driver (a situation which arises more often than you seem to think). the cyclist and the motorist remains uninjured. Being injured is not the only way to be a victim. |
#53
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Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?
On Nov 19, 1:16*pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , What you are doing is what (in California at least), the Yanks call "defensive driving". And if in the event of an accident it can be shown that you did not do what you reasonably could to mitigate the accident, your share of the blame goes up. And this is entirely as it should be. The "duty of care" notion is entire bull****. Which of course explains why the US has a much better road safety record than the UK, and why cyclists and pedestrians are so much more at risk in places like Netherlands where they have strict liability. Oh, wait, no, it's exactly the other way round. Perhaps the US model is not quite so compelling after all. I don't know about the US in general, but I do know about California, having lived there. IME drivers slowed down and stopped the minute a pedestrian was anywhere in the roadway. Drivers always pulled over and stopped for any emergency vehicle too [1]. I think their road signage sucked but driver behaviour was typically much better. Strict liability, eh? Remind me never to drive in the Netherlands. [1] Too bad that doesn't happen here, where people seem to think they are being helpful by driving along in front of the emergency vehicle. Didn't someone get nabbed for driving through a red light in an attempt to clear the way for an ambulance? -- Simon Mason |
#54
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Why don't cyclists learn to use their brains?
On 16/11/2011 08:31, Mrcheerful wrote:
"the driver cut in as he overtook me. "I shouted out a warning and knocked on the roof of the car, but the driver continued to cut in and struck the bike, causing me to fall to the pavement." If you have time enough to shout and bang on the car, then why on Earth are you not keeping your hands on the handlebars and braking? He sounds like a Simon, an accident waiting to happen http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s...t_poor_driving Clear case for cycle training & regulation. -- Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster University |
#55
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Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes andnot crash into cyclists?)
On Nov 19, 8:30*am, "Doug" wrote:
On 19-Nov-2011, Mick the Moderator wrote: Message-ID: It appears that the above post was an abusive or trolling messsage from Doug, a known serial offender. We apologise for any distress this obnoxious message may have caused, it has now been reported to as a violation of their acceptable use policy. This does not preclude additional reports of this abuse, should you feel so motivated. Thank you for your patience during this hopefully brief interruption to your usenet pleasure. -- Mick the Moderator pp. the Hon. Nigel P. Smallpiece (CEO), Knotty Ash Enterprises plc, England Why don't you get a life, troll? Doug.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling. -- Simon Mason |
#56
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Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:33:30 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote: Didn't someone get nabbed for driving through a red light in an attempt to clear the way for an ambulance? Yes. It was later quashed in court. Guy -- Guy Chapman, http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk The usenet price promise: all opinions are guaranteed to be worth at least what you paid for them. |
#57
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Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?)
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote: On Nov 19, 8:30*am, "Doug" wrote: On 19-Nov-2011, Mick the Moderator wrote: Message-ID: It appears that the above post was an abusive or trolling messsage from Doug, a known serial offender. We apologise for any distress this obnoxious message may have caused, it has now been reported to as a violation of their acceptable use policy. This does not preclude additional reports of this abuse, should you feel so motivated. Thank you for your patience during this hopefully brief interruption to your usenet pleasure. -- Mick the Moderator pp. the Hon. Nigel P. Smallpiece (CEO), Knotty Ash Enterprises plc, England Why don't you get a life, troll? Doug.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling. I wonder how you know that ? You need to get a life sunshine. -- "You get a real feeling of elation just for the simple act of cycling past the local hospital where there are people of my age who have abused their bodies and suffered all sorts of ailments" Simon Mason |
#58
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Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?)
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote: Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling. Which appears to have stopped following comments on this group, which demonstrates that unlike JMS, medjob and cheerless, to name but three, the responsible party can at least take a hint. Guy -- Guy Chapman, http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk The usenet price promise: all opinions are guaranteed to be worth at least what you paid for them. |
#59
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Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes andnot crash into cyclists?)
On 20/11/2011 12:56, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason wrote: Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling. Which appears to have stopped following comments on this group, which demonstrates that unlike JMS, medjob and cheerless, to name but three, the responsible party can at least take a hint. Those three do not take hints, they need the law acting on them. Which is fine, but it takes time. Often several years from outset but it is worth it in the end. -- Simon For personal replies, please use my reply-to address. |
#60
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Apology (Was:Why don't motorists learn to use their brakes and not crash into cyclists?)
Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 12:56, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote: On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:03 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason wrote: Apparently, he has already been reported about his trolling. Which appears to have stopped following comments on this group, which demonstrates that unlike JMS, medjob and cheerless, to name but three, the responsible party can at least take a hint. Those three do not take hints, they need the law acting on them. Which is fine, but it takes time. Often several years from outset but it is worth it in the end. tell me: Why don't all these cyclists that I offend go to the moderated group and chat to each other there? I promise that I won't post to that group. Please also feel free to point out any post of mine which directly attacks or harrasses any individual. or any which use abusive language. Mrcheerful |
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