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Police to arrest cyclists?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 31st 12, 10:35 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
NM
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Posts: 1,854
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On Jul 30, 11:59*pm, "Zapp Brannigan" wrote:


But perhaps no charges will be brought in the end, after all they've had a
useful educational experience and their DNA etc is now on record to deter
future misconduct. * It's a win-win scenario for the Babylon (and a terrible
own goal by the fanatics who tried to disrupt our Olympic opening ceremony).


Why is their DNA held, I understood the DNA of those arrested but not
convicted or proceeded against would be removed from the database? I
hope this an automatic process or is it something the arrested person
has to instigate himself?
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  #12  
Old July 31st 12, 10:59 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On 31/07/2012 10:35, NM wrote:
On Jul 30, 11:59 pm, "Zapp Brannigan" wrote:


But perhaps no charges will be brought in the end, after all they've had a
useful educational experience and their DNA etc is now on record to deter
future misconduct. It's a win-win scenario for the Babylon (and a terrible
own goal by the fanatics who tried to disrupt our Olympic opening ceremony).


Why is their DNA held, I understood the DNA of those arrested but not
convicted or proceeded against would be removed from the database?


Whether that applies to the persons in question has yet to be seen.


  #13  
Old August 1st 12, 07:58 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Doug[_10_]
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Posts: 1,104
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On Monday, July 30, 2012 6:24:41 PM UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

"Zapp Brannigan" considered Sat, 28 Jul 2012


22:13:47 +0100 the perfect time to write:






"Phil W Lee" wrote in message


news


"Zapp Brannigan" considered Sat, 28 Jul 2012


18:07:37 +0100 the perfect time to write:


"Phil W Lee" wrote in message


...




As he had no /reasonable/ belief that the procession would cause


any trouble, the order was unlawful.




Unfortunately it is the senior police officer's opinion which is


pertinent here, not yours.




Ah yes, never let the facts get in the way when you want to


persecute someone.




If a senior police officer had the opinion that David Cameron was a


terrorist plant, would he make an armed raid on number 10 in the


small hours of the morning?




Without any grounds for the belief, it is not reasonable.




The accused persons will have the opportunity to make a defence on


that basis.




The Met will set out the scale of the event they were tasked to


protect, the scale of threat to that event, and the disruption


already being suffered by the local community. They will present


their assessment of the risks presented by an uncontrolled mob


invasion of unknown protestors with diverse motives.




The court will then decide whether the police commander had any


reasonable basis for concern. I think it is inevitable and right


that they will find for the Police on this point, but we'll have to


wait and see.




The police have apparently realised that they can't make any


justification for nearly all the arrests, and have released them


without charge. The only ones they've charged are those against whom


they have some OTHER charge.




So all the disruption and nearly all the arrests were, by the polices


own admission, unfounded.




I hope the IPCC will investigate the senior officer concerned, with a


view to prosecution for his instigation of this vendetta.




I hope he gets a commendation for lessening the nuisance the cyclists

attempted to cause, it would be great if this (arresting and charging of

troublemakers) could happen every time cyclorabble get on the streets to try

and disrupt other people's lives.

The major disruption in this case was caused by the police blocking off roads in an attempt to stop CM and merely because CM participants had decided not to obey the stupid conditions imposed on them by the police, such as not to go north of the river.

BTW, this is a good example of how the police are allowed to create crimes as they go along and criminalise people extra-judicially, on the basis of "Do as we say or else!"

-- .
One person's managed democracy is another person's Police State,
where rights are replaced by concessions.
  #14  
Old August 1st 12, 08:07 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT), Doug
wrote:

the police are allowed to create crimes as they go along


This really is a problem.

How can the police be allowed to create the crime of "Cycling
northbound over a London bridge", and then punish an infringement by
detaining overnight and withholding the primary means of transport
home.

It leaves the police acting as lawmaker, prosecutor, judge, jury,
prison guard and "executioner".
  #15  
Old August 1st 12, 08:21 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
John Benn
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Posts: 865
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

"Doug" wrote in message
...

The major disruption in this case was caused by the police blocking off
roads in an attempt to stop CM and merely because CM participants had
decided not to obey the stupid conditions imposed on them by the police,
such as not to go north of the river.

BTW, this is a good example of how the police are allowed to create crimes
as they go along and criminalise people extra-judicially, on the basis of
"Do as we say or else!"


Ha ha ha ha

  #16  
Old August 1st 12, 08:36 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Dave - Cyclists VOR
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Posts: 7,703
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On 01/08/2012 08:07, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT), Doug
wrote:

the police are allowed to create crimes as they go along


This really is a problem.


No it isn't. Don't break the law.

How can the police be allowed to create the crime of "Cycling
northbound over a London bridge", and then punish an infringement by
detaining overnight and withholding the primary means of transport
home.


Usual nonsense. The crime already exists under the Public Order Act 1986.

It leaves the police acting as lawmaker, prosecutor, judge, jury,
prison guard and "executioner".

********.

Public Order Act, Section 14 - Imposing conditions on public assemblies;
provides police the power to impose conditions on assemblies "to prevent
serious public disorder, serious criminal damage or serious disruption
to the life of the community". The conditions are limited to the
specifying of: the number of people who may take part, the location of
the assembly, and its maximum duration.

Should be clear enough even to a primary school teacher.

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton, of Lancaster
University, wrote in an interim assessment of the Understanding Walking
and Cycling study. "For them, cycling is a bit embarrassing, they fail
to see its purpose, and have no interest in integrating it into their
lives, certainly on a regular basis."
  #17  
Old August 1st 12, 08:37 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On 01/08/2012 08:07, Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT), Doug
wrote:

the police are allowed to create crimes as they go along


This really is a problem.

How can the police be allowed to create the crime of "Cycling
northbound over a London bridge", and then punish an infringement by
detaining overnight and withholding the primary means of transport
home.


Do you know what the words "travesty", "misrepresentation" and "deceit" mean?

It leaves the police acting as lawmaker, prosecutor, judge, jury,
prison guard and "executioner".


You'd no doubt prefer it if all of the people holding those offices were kept
on hand all night, with the punishment handed out to Critical Mess terrorists
being supplemented by significant imposts for costs.


  #18  
Old August 1st 12, 09:05 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,662
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

Doug wrote:
On Monday, July 30, 2012 6:24:41 PM UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

"Zapp Brannigan" considered Sat, 28 Jul 2012


22:13:47 +0100 the perfect time to write:






"Phil W Lee" wrote in message


news


"Zapp Brannigan" considered Sat, 28 Jul 2012


18:07:37 +0100 the perfect time to write:


"Phil W Lee" wrote in message


...




As he had no /reasonable/ belief that the procession would cause


any trouble, the order was unlawful.




Unfortunately it is the senior police officer's opinion which is


pertinent here, not yours.




Ah yes, never let the facts get in the way when you want to


persecute someone.




If a senior police officer had the opinion that David Cameron was
a


terrorist plant, would he make an armed raid on number 10 in the


small hours of the morning?




Without any grounds for the belief, it is not reasonable.




The accused persons will have the opportunity to make a defence on


that basis.




The Met will set out the scale of the event they were tasked to


protect, the scale of threat to that event, and the disruption


already being suffered by the local community. They will present


their assessment of the risks presented by an uncontrolled mob


invasion of unknown protestors with diverse motives.




The court will then decide whether the police commander had any


reasonable basis for concern. I think it is inevitable and right


that they will find for the Police on this point, but we'll have to


wait and see.




The police have apparently realised that they can't make any


justification for nearly all the arrests, and have released them


without charge. The only ones they've charged are those against
whom


they have some OTHER charge.




So all the disruption and nearly all the arrests were, by the
polices


own admission, unfounded.




I hope the IPCC will investigate the senior officer concerned, with
a


view to prosecution for his instigation of this vendetta.




I hope he gets a commendation for lessening the nuisance the cyclists

attempted to cause, it would be great if this (arresting and
charging of

troublemakers) could happen every time cyclorabble get on the
streets to try

and disrupt other people's lives.

The major disruption in this case was caused by the police blocking
off roads in an attempt to stop CM and merely because CM participants
had decided not to obey the stupid conditions imposed on them by the
police, such as not to go north of the river.

BTW, this is a good example of how the police are allowed to create
crimes as they go along and criminalise people extra-judicially, on
the basis of "Do as we say or else!"

-- .
One person's managed democracy is another person's Police State,
where rights are replaced by concessions.


As I see it genuine CM was joined by extra elements whose only purpose was
to disrupt the olympics. The best thing CM could do for itself would be to
publicly distance itself from the trouble making elements, both the ones
that are in CM and the outsiders.


  #19  
Old August 1st 12, 05:02 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT), Doug wrote:

snip


The major disruption in this case was caused by the police blocking off roads in an attempt to stop CM
and merely because CM participants had decided not to obey the stupid conditions imposed on them by the police, such as not to go north of the river.




Excellent Doug - I thought it was all premeditated.

  #20  
Old August 1st 12, 05:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Dave - Cyclists VOR
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Posts: 7,703
Default Police to arrest cyclists?

On 01/08/2012 07:58, Doug wrote:


The major disruption in this case was caused by the police blocking
off roads in an attempt to stop CM and merely because CM participants
had decided not to obey the stupid conditions imposed on them by the
police, such as not to go north of the river.


The police were only there because the CM ****s had decided in advance
to cause disruption - an offence under the Public Order Act.

BTW, this is a good example of how the police are allowed to create
crimes as they go along and criminalise people extra-judicially, on
the basis of "Do as we say or else!"


Section 12 - Imposing conditions on public processions provides police
the power to impose conditions on processions "to prevent serious public
disorder, serious criminal damage or serious disruption to the life of
the community"

The entire purpose of the CM ****s was to cause "serious public
disorder, serious criminal damage or serious disruption to the life of
the community".



--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton, of Lancaster
University, wrote in an interim assessment of the Understanding Walking
and Cycling study. "For them, cycling is a bit embarrassing, they fail
to see its purpose, and have no interest in integrating it into their
lives, certainly on a regular basis."
 




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