Numerical Benefit of Drafting

"Philip W. Moore, Jr." wrote in message ...
Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.


Pretty easy to see why it would be hard for you to describe the
sensation. Considering you are the WORLDS LARGEST FRED, and probably
can't keep up with the local bicycle touring clubs ice cream social
rides, let alone any competitive level training ride. And for the fact
that the longest you ever stayed in any draft was the first lap of the
Dallas Morning News city criterium citizen's category. And the closest
you ever got to an actual working echelon was watching WCP Spring
Classics DVD's while polishing your bike.

cp

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:46:38 -0600, "Philip W. Moore, Jr."
wrote:

Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.

None for me. No one trusted me enough to let me near their wheel.
OTOH, whenever I got close to the back of the pack, their average
speed went up by several mph.

Really kind of irritating.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:46:38 -0600, "Philip W. Moore, Jr."
wrote:

Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.

None for me. No one trusted me enough to let me near their wheel.
OTOH, whenever I got close to the back of the pack, their average
speed went up by several mph.

Really kind of irritating.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

(crit pro) wrote in message . com...
Pretty easy to see why it would be hard for you to describe the
sensation. Considering you are the WORLDS LARGEST FRED, and probably
can't keep up with the local bicycle touring clubs ice cream social
rides, let alone any competitive level training ride. And for the fact
that the longest you ever stayed in any draft was the first lap of the
Dallas Morning News city criterium citizen's category. And the closest
you ever got to an actual working echelon was watching WCP Spring
Classics DVD's while polishing your bike.

You're a blubbering, pompous ass. You're as far removed from being a
legit pro cyclist (a.k.a. on a real Euro team) as the people rag on.
No wonder nobody in the US gives a crap about D3 "pros" like yourself.

Next time you go looking for the WORLD'S LARGEST FRED, try your
bathroom mirror.

Zub

(crit pro) wrote in message . com...
Pretty easy to see why it would be hard for you to describe the
sensation. Considering you are the WORLDS LARGEST FRED, and probably
can't keep up with the local bicycle touring clubs ice cream social
rides, let alone any competitive level training ride. And for the fact
that the longest you ever stayed in any draft was the first lap of the
Dallas Morning News city criterium citizen's category. And the closest
you ever got to an actual working echelon was watching WCP Spring
Classics DVD's while polishing your bike.

You're a blubbering, pompous ass. You're as far removed from being a
legit pro cyclist (a.k.a. on a real Euro team) as the people rag on.
No wonder nobody in the US gives a crap about D3 "pros" like yourself.

Next time you go looking for the WORLD'S LARGEST FRED, try your
bathroom mirror.

Zub

"Raoul Duke" wrote:
" Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.

Funny you should ask. Outside magazine recently published a brief article
on the effects of drafting (the recent issue with Gabrielle Reece on the
cover). According to the article, the second rider in line gets a 17%
advantage, the third rider a 38% advantage, and the fourth a 40% advantage
(assuming a race pace). Interestingly, the article claims the lead rider
gets a 3% advantage because the second rider breaks up the drag vortices
behind the lead rider.

A 30% reduction in power is the number that's usually tossed around here.
I'm pretty sure that there are exercise phys studies behind this. Note
that that's 30% in power, not speed. In the middle of a 100 person
peleton, it should be larger. I don't think anyone has conclusively
demonstrated that the lead rider gets an advantage, and I'm not sure
cyclists can follow close enough to give the lead rider an advantage
(wheels keep the bodies farther apart - unlike race cars).

Like the average RBR denizen, I would probably see more than a 30% advantage
from drafting Gabrielle Reece, though.

"Raoul Duke" wrote:
" Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.

Funny you should ask. Outside magazine recently published a brief article
on the effects of drafting (the recent issue with Gabrielle Reece on the
cover). According to the article, the second rider in line gets a 17%
advantage, the third rider a 38% advantage, and the fourth a 40% advantage
(assuming a race pace). Interestingly, the article claims the lead rider
gets a 3% advantage because the second rider breaks up the drag vortices
behind the lead rider.

A 30% reduction in power is the number that's usually tossed around here.
I'm pretty sure that there are exercise phys studies behind this. Note
that that's 30% in power, not speed. In the middle of a 100 person
peleton, it should be larger. I don't think anyone has conclusively
demonstrated that the lead rider gets an advantage, and I'm not sure
cyclists can follow close enough to give the lead rider an advantage
(wheels keep the bodies farther apart - unlike race cars).

Like the average RBR denizen, I would probably see more than a 30% advantage
from drafting Gabrielle Reece, though.

Raoul Duke Wrote:
" Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced
effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was
asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.


Funny you should ask. Outside magazine recently published a brief
article
on the effects of drafting (the recent issue with Gabrielle Reece on
the
cover). According to the article, the second rider in line gets a 17%
advantage, the third rider a 38% advantage, and the fourth a 40%
advantage
(assuming a race pace). Interestingly, the article claims the lead
rider
gets a 3% advantage because the second rider breaks up the drag
vortices
behind the lead rider.


It stands to reason the incremental benefit between the second and
third rider is not going more than the incremental benefit between the
first and second.
Whatever benefit the third rider has is going what the second rider
gives him from channelling through an already reduced air-drag plus the
benefit from the lead rider at a 6-8 foot distance.

At least one of those numbers is out of whack no mater what speed they
are tried, or some differing conditions were present.


--
meb

Raoul Duke Wrote:
" Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced
effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was
asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.


Funny you should ask. Outside magazine recently published a brief
article
on the effects of drafting (the recent issue with Gabrielle Reece on
the
cover). According to the article, the second rider in line gets a 17%
advantage, the third rider a 38% advantage, and the fourth a 40%
advantage
(assuming a race pace). Interestingly, the article claims the lead
rider
gets a 3% advantage because the second rider breaks up the drag
vortices
behind the lead rider.


It stands to reason the incremental benefit between the second and
third rider is not going more than the incremental benefit between the
first and second.
Whatever benefit the third rider has is going what the second rider
gives him from channelling through an already reduced air-drag plus the
benefit from the lead rider at a 6-8 foot distance.

At least one of those numbers is out of whack no mater what speed they
are tried, or some differing conditions were present.


--
meb

Critter P - - - y,

You talk a lot of **** for an anonymous D3 Wal-Mart parking lot racer. I
understand the basics of drafting, and was asking for more specific
information and sources.

No, I don't race bikes for a living. Because I could get into law school.
So I am sure that you know quite a bit more about bike racing than I do.

-Philip
"crit pro" wrote in message
om...
"Philip W. Moore, Jr." wrote in message
...
Can anybody quantify the advantages of drafting in terms of reduced
effort
while riding in the pack, whether in line or in an echelon? I was asked
this question by a mountain biker and could not answer it.


Pretty easy to see why it would be hard for you to describe the
sensation. Considering you are the WORLDS LARGEST FRED, and probably
can't keep up with the local bicycle touring clubs ice cream social
rides, let alone any competitive level training ride. And for the fact
that the longest you ever stayed in any draft was the first lap of the
Dallas Morning News city criterium citizen's category. And the closest
you ever got to an actual working echelon was watching WCP Spring
Classics DVD's while polishing your bike.

cp