A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Damned Central Heating!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 21st 19, 12:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 06:09:19 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT), Mike A Schwab
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the thermocouple of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of those?


If you have propane tanks then when the temperature gets too cold you don't get enough propane evaporating from the liquid to run the furnace. Be sure when ordering for winter to get a COLD mix. Has a mix of fuels with a lower boiling point.


The boiling point of propane is -44F and Butane is 31F. I doubt that
you had a problem with pure propane but a propane-butane mixture,
which I believe is sold in the U.S. as "LPG" is noticeably different.
In fact I believe that the mixture is varied from the "summer mix" to
the "winter mix" which contains more propane and less butane.
different.


--
Cheers,
John B.


Ads
  #12  
Old March 21st 19, 01:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike A Schwab
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 443
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 5:47:52 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:01:59 -0700, Mike A Schwab wrote:

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped
igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the
thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was dirty
or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the thermocouple
of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn the full flame
on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was OK
and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work for six
weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not lighting
again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the main
control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't
lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to
replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to
convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of those?


If you have propane tanks then when the temperature gets too cold you
don't get enough propane evaporating from the liquid to run the furnace.
Be sure when ordering for winter to get a COLD mix. Has a mix of fuels
with a lower boiling point.


Bigger tank?
At what size tank does that happen?
Add a blanket to your tank?
OTOH, I have actually formed ice on a 9kg LPG tank, once, whilst runnng a
string of tripple ring burners for bush catering.


A small heating pad to warm the propane tank. Or one build for the purpose. https://www.powerblanket.com/blog/ho...from-freezing/
  #13  
Old March 21st 19, 06:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 17:10:17 -0700, Mike A Schwab wrote:

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 5:47:52 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:01:59 -0700, Mike A Schwab wrote:

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating
stopped igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was
that the thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be
ignited was dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough
to the thermocouple of inform it that there was a real flame there
and turn the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was
OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work
for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not
lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the
main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't
lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to
replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to
convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of
those?

If you have propane tanks then when the temperature gets too cold you
don't get enough propane evaporating from the liquid to run the
furnace.
Be sure when ordering for winter to get a COLD mix. Has a mix of
fuels
with a lower boiling point.


Bigger tank?
At what size tank does that happen?
Add a blanket to your tank?
OTOH, I have actually formed ice on a 9kg LPG tank, once, whilst runnng
a string of tripple ring burners for bush catering.


A small heating pad to warm the propane tank. Or one build for the
purpose.
https://www.powerblanket.com/blog/ho...-propane-tank-

from-freezing/

Hmm, perhaps have it close by the Hot water system where it can absorb
wamth from it. YMMV, but ours are both outside.

  #14  
Old March 22nd 19, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 3:44:12 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:09:21 -0700, sms wrote:

On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.

There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.


LPG prices tend to follow the natural gas prices, especially here where
they exsprt just about everything for sale overseas. Since the
politicians allowed gas exploration and export with effective nil
royalties, Australia has had to import Natural gas from overseas to meet
demand.

We've run wood for decades. It came from the tree loppers, which I guess
is what you call cord wood, but the work involved is now too much and
we've gone back to LPG.

Wood is a preferrable heating method to gas to electric. Since our wood
heater almost needs replacement, we did look at pellets, but limited
supply leading to cost gouging was a concern, plus modern heaters seem to
be tin plate these days.


Here they actually grow more wood than they use. In fact many forests are recovering band east.
  #15  
Old March 23rd 19, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike A Schwab
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 443
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 5:44:12 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:09:21 -0700, sms wrote:

On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.

There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.


LPG prices tend to follow the natural gas prices, especially here where
they exsprt just about everything for sale overseas. Since the
politicians allowed gas exploration and export with effective nil
royalties, Australia has had to import Natural gas from overseas to meet
demand.

We've run wood for decades. It came from the tree loppers, which I guess
is what you call cord wood, but the work involved is now too much and
we've gone back to LPG.

Wood is a preferrable heating method to gas to electric. Since our wood
heater almost needs replacement, we did look at pellets, but limited
supply leading to cost gouging was a concern, plus modern heaters seem to
be tin plate these days.


I know someone who used corn in a pellet stove just fine. Wheat should work too.
  #16  
Old March 23rd 19, 05:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 2019-03-20 11:09, sms wrote:
On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.


Only in the flatlands and then only in larger cities. Up here in the
hills its propane and you must buy from the company store. Hence high
prices.


There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.



Electric? With PG&E as the supplier? I won't touch that with a 10ft pole
for anything where electric power isn't absolutely needed.

To avoid the high cost of A/C we switched to evaporative cooling. No tax
incentives there either because politicians are generally not smart
enough to understand the benefits of that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #17  
Old March 23rd 19, 06:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Saturday, March 23, 2019 at 9:34:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-20 11:09, sms wrote:
On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.


Only in the flatlands and then only in larger cities. Up here in the
hills its propane and you must buy from the company store. Hence high
prices.


There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.



Electric? With PG&E as the supplier? I won't touch that with a 10ft pole
for anything where electric power isn't absolutely needed.

To avoid the high cost of A/C we switched to evaporative cooling. No tax
incentives there either because politicians are generally not smart
enough to understand the benefits of that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


In the best year when we had a drought so little in the way of clouds, PG&E with huge installations of windmills and solar farms managed to generate 3% of their electric demands with "green power".

And what do we see the general public doing? Commercial aircraft use is increasing almost by the minute. This accounts for almost 40% of private transportation fuel use generating CO2. If you go to New York or San Francisco, the bridges are totally lit with wall to wall lights. "But they are LED's" so instead of 10,000 watts they are only a kilowatt.
  #18  
Old March 23rd 19, 11:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 09:34:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-03-20 11:09, sms wrote:
On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.


Only in the flatlands and then only in larger cities. Up here in the
hills its propane and you must buy from the company store. Hence high
prices.


There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.



Electric? With PG&E as the supplier? I won't touch that with a 10ft pole
for anything where electric power isn't absolutely needed.Yve cooling. No tax
incentives there either because politicians are generally not smart
enough to understand the benefits of that.


You bought a house in a gated community, and you own two cars, and
can't afford electricity?

  #19  
Old March 24th 19, 12:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 2019-03-23 15:56, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 09:34:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-03-20 11:09, sms wrote:


[...]


There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.



Electric? With PG&E as the supplier? I won't touch that with a 10ft pole
for anything where electric power isn't absolutely needed.Yve cooling. No tax
incentives there either because politicians are generally not smart
enough to understand the benefits of that.


You bought a house in a gated community, and you own two cars, and
can't afford electricity?


Please pay closer attention to what was written and, even more so, what
was not written. Premature conclusions are also not wise.

a. We do not live in a gated community. Never did.

b. Our cars are both well over 20 years old and we drive less than
1200mi/year with each of them.

c. Of course we can afford electricity. However, it is foolish to use a
resource with sky-high prices when there is another much more economical
resource.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #20  
Old March 24th 19, 12:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 2019-03-20 09:42, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:28:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-19 11:17,
wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating
stopped igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was
that the thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be
ignited was dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close
enough to the thermocouple of inform it that there was a real
flame there and turn the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple
was OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to
work for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started
not lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was
the main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater
isn't lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to
replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how
to convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one
of those?


We had that happen a long time ago and the cause was the
electronic controller board. The central propane furnace would go
VROOOOP .. PHUTAH-PHUT ... RUMBLE ... VROOOOOOOOOP ... and never
stayed on anymore.

When the technician came out he exclaimed "Oh look, an old Fenwal
controller board!", saying he was amazed that it lasted this long.
He switched it out against one from another manufacturer and all
was well.

I asked him to leave the old board and when probing it I found that
the triac that controls the main burner valve had gone partially
bad so it wouldn't be able to send a full current through the valve
solenoid anymore. Could have kicked myself because instead of
paying a few hundred Dollars I could have gotten one of those triac
for a couple of Dollars and replaced it. If these triac are on a
separate driver board then check that.

There is also a suction sensor, for example a flap in the intake
stream that operates a signaling switch. If that got crudded up it
might at times falsely signal a failing air draft and that would
cut the main valve.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/





when the technician came out again the board was showing errors of
"too many tries". He pulled the connector off and spread the male
connector so that it would make better connection to the main gas
valve and it appears to work perfectly now. Though when the main gas
valve was replaced 3 months ago it all worked fine until recently.


The first technician could have diagnosed that easily by measuring how
many volts are actually arriving at the solenoid. This is the first
order of business for me when, for example, my wife says that a certain
zone in the yard doesn't get watered reliably.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lanterne Rouge heating up. Michael Press Racing 4 July 9th 11 06:20 PM
Armstrong's goose is marinating, and the oven is pre-heating TheCoz Racing 0 May 22nd 11 02:55 AM
Safe temperature limit for heating CF Carl Sundquist Techniques 42 March 18th 09 05:23 PM
NBG's 2008 SF to Boston 6th Mayors' Ride Heating Up!! Martin Krieg[_2_] General 0 February 29th 08 08:35 PM
Denver's Real Bike Mayor, SF and CA heating up!! [email protected] Rides 1 July 3rd 06 05:30 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.