Greeness and Wind Turbines

Doug wrote:
On Jan 5, 8:34 am, wrote:
Derek C wrote:
Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Derek C

he should get a pedal powered generator............. wait a minute, why not
use a bicycle?

Because people with physical disabilities sometimes have difficulty
getting up hills and riding against strong headwinds. It is still
preferable to using a polluting car though.

Just stay at home. Or is your selfish mobility more important
than the environment?

BugBear

On Jan 6, 8:46*am, Doug wrote:
On Jan 5, 8:31*am, Derek C wrote: Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Have any ships crashed into them yet?

Progress with wind farms is ongoing and promising.

Similarly for electrically powered cars, yet you seem to poo-poo any
story which shows a new advancement, just because it's not 100%
"green". All technological advances go in stages.

One way to cater
for wind free days is to pump water uphill to a reservoir when it is
very windy.

Yup, we've already got pumped storage. Because of the way the grid
works, you can't obviously say that the pumping is powered
specifically by a particular energy source, in the same way as if you
sign up to a "green" electricity tarriff you can't say that the
electricity coming into your home is all from windmills or whatever.

Another alternative is...

"The ministers from 9 EU member states and Norway have agreed to start
working on regulatory and technical issues, as evidence points to the
fact that sourcing electricity from a wider European geographical pool
of generators can both increase use of renewable electricity and drive
down cost to the consumer."

Got that too. There are interconnectors to/from France, Ireland and
the Netherlands. Same arguments above about source of power on those
interconnectors.

On Jan 6, 8:53*am, ash wrote:
On Jan 6, 8:46*am, Doug wrote:



On Jan 5, 8:31*am, Derek C wrote: Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Have any ships crashed into them yet?

Progress with wind farms is ongoing and promising. One way to cater
for wind free days is to pump water uphill to a reservoir when it is
very windy. Another alternative is...

"The ministers from 9 EU member states and Norway have agreed to start
working on regulatory and technical issues, as evidence points to the
fact that sourcing electricity from a wider European geographical pool
of generators can both increase use of renewable electricity and drive
down cost to the consumer."

Doug.

Electricity doesn't travel very well from Norway Doug. The losses in
the lines is quite significant - as well as the infrastructure of
putting them there and maintaining them in the first place. There is
also the issue of building these reservoirs as well

My understanding is that our grid is already linked to Europe anyway.

"...An anticipated doubling of the capacity for importing energy using
interconnectors linked to Europe will also allow wind intermittency to
be balanced out across a wider area, again limiting the need for
backup power..."

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...energy-critics

Building power station lines is just as much hassle and losses are
generally much less than transforming oil into forward motion.

Doug.

On Jan 6, 8:46*am, Doug wrote:
On Jan 5, 8:31*am, Derek C wrote: Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Have any ships crashed into them yet?


I don't know about ships, but a wind turbine has been hit by some sort
of flying object. See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ealed-off.html

Wind farms also cause interfence on Air Traffic Control radar screens
and must be a hazard to lower flying civil and military aircraft,
especially as the land based ones are normally situated on high
ground.

I think it's only a matter of time before a ship collides with an
offshore wind farm.

Derek C

On Jan 7, 11:16*am, Derek C wrote:
On Jan 6, 8:46*am, Doug wrote:

On Jan 5, 8:31*am, Derek C wrote: Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Have any ships crashed into them yet?

I don't know about ships, but a wind turbine has been hit by some sort
of flying object. See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news.../4220725/UFO-w...

Wind farms also cause interfence on Air Traffic Control radar screens
and must be a hazard to lower flying civil and military aircraft,
especially as the land based ones are normally situated on high
ground.

Same applies to high buildings and electricity pylons.

I think it's only a matter of time before a ship collides with an
offshore wind farm.

Well they quite often collide with something or other anyway,
including other ships.

Doug.

On Jan 8, 6:50*am, Doug wrote:
On Jan 7, 11:16*am, Derek C wrote:
On Jan 6, 8:46*am, Doug wrote:

On Jan 5, 8:31*am, Derek C wrote: Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Have any ships crashed into them yet?

I don't know about ships, but a wind turbine has been hit by some sort
of flying object. See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news.../4220725/UFO-w...

Wind farms also cause interfence on Air Traffic Control radar screens
and must be a hazard to lower flying civil and military aircraft,
especially as the land based ones are normally situated on high
ground.

Same applies to high buildings and electricity pylons.

I though you were very much in favour of very tall vertical cities
Doug!

I think it's only a matter of time before a ship collides with an
offshore wind farm.

Well they quite often collide with something or other anyway,
including other ships.

Still an unnecessary hazard though, especially as they are so
inefficient at actually generating electricity.

Derek C

On Jan 8, 6:50*am, Doug wrote:
On Jan 7, 11:16*am, Derek C wrote:
On Jan 6, 8:46*am, Doug wrote:

On Jan 5, 8:31*am, Derek C wrote: Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days. Therefore coal and gas fired
power stations had to be kept on standby or online. Wind Farms are an
eyesore and a hazard to aviation and shipping in my opinion.

Have any ships crashed into them yet?

I don't know about ships, but a wind turbine has been hit by some sort
of flying object. See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news.../4220725/UFO-w...

Wind farms also cause interfence on Air Traffic Control radar screens
and must be a hazard to lower flying civil and military aircraft,
especially as the land based ones are normally situated on high
ground.

Same applies to high buildings and electricity pylons.

I thought that you were all in favour of very tall structures called
vertical cities Doug!

I think it's only a matter of time before a ship collides with an
offshore wind farm.

Well they quite often collide with something or other anyway,
including other ships.

They are still an unnecessary hazard to navigation, especially in view
of their poor efficiency in actually generating electricity on a
reliable basis.

Derek C

On Sat, 8 Jan 2011 00:30:05 -0800 (PST), Derek C
wrote:

They are still an unnecessary hazard to navigation, especially in view
of their poor efficiency in actually generating electricity on a
reliable basis.

It could be argued that it is not the wind turbine which is
unreliable, rather the wind which drives them.

On Jan 8, 10:04*am, Tom Crispin wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jan 2011 00:30:05 -0800 (PST), Derek C

wrote:
They are still an unnecessary hazard to navigation, especially in view
of their poor efficiency in actually generating electricity on a
reliable basis.

It could be argued that it is not the wind turbine which is
unreliable, rather the wind which drives them.

They would be great if we had a constant 20mph wind over the British
Isles, but we don't. During the recent cold spell, when we really
needed electricity, the winds were very light and on some days wind
power was contributing less than 0.5% of the total UK requirement.

Derek C

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 00:07:13 -0800 (PST), ash
wrote:

On Jan 5, 10:57*pm, "DavidR" wrote:
"Derek C" wrote in message

...

Bad news for Doug charging up his electric bike. It was recently
reported that during the recent cold spell, when winds were generally
quite light, that less than 0.5% of the UK's electricity needs were
being met by wind farms on some days.

This information would have been suppressed under the last government.

Not it wasn't. This information has been in the public domain for
about a decade. If you want to look at suppressed information in the
energy sector you only need to examine the regime of Thatcher and
Major with regards to the dash for gas, wholesale gas export and the
subsequent implications for energy supply & security.


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