Dura-Ace: $168; Record: $408 - Why???

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

...
The $408 is, we sell it for about $325. And carbon and titanium of the Record
vs steel and aluminum of DA is the reason for the price of Record....

And what real advantage does the carbon fiber and titanium provide,
other than showing off how much money was spent on it?

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

"Russell Seaton" wrote in message
om...
"basjan" wrote in message
...
"Qui si parla Campagnolo " wrote in message
...
basjan- They
listed the rear derailleur retail price of each group as an indication
of
relative price. According to the article (page 90-91) they stated
that a
Dura-Ace derailleur runs $168, while a Record goes for $408. Is this
a
misprint? BRBR

The $408 is, we sell it for about $325. And carbon and titanium of the
Record
vs steel and aluminum of DA is the reason for the price of Record.

basjan Is the great Camapgnolo ultimately the
biggest "market hype" culprit of them all? BRBR


Take a look at the 10s DA crank and STI lever prices-Over $400 for the
10s
STI
and same for the crank...How about $300 for the hubset...

I agree that the prices are outrageous for what you get. Just seems
that
twice the price for a Record derailleur with carbon and titanium and 4g
heavier than Dura-Ace should buy you a lot of improvement over Dura-Ace.
Maybe each of the two companies feel that their "research" warrants the
prices. Even looking at the Record Carbon crankset - $$$wow$$$!!

Colorado Cyclist charges $290 for the 324 gram Record shifters. And
$385 for the 419 gram Dura Ace 10 speed shifters. $95 more isn't too
much, but when the shifters weigh a quarter pound more, something is
wrong. Why pay more for a component to gain a quarter pound of
weight? Usually cyclists are willing to pay obscene amounts of money
to lose component weight, not increase it.

yes why indeed

we need another suntour

Basjan wrote:
Just browsed through the latest Bicycling magazine (Buyer's Guide).
listed the rear derailleur retail price of each group as an indication
of relative price. According to the article (page 90-91) they stated
that a Dura-Ace derailleur runs $168, while a Record goes for $408. Is
this a misprint?
If not, is the Record more than 200% "better"? The Dura-Ace weighs
180g and the Record 184g, so it can't be in the weight. There is much talk
this newsgroup about market hype, and I know the Record has many
titanium and carbon bits and pieces, but yikes!! Is the great
Camapgnol ultimately the biggest "market hype" culprit of them all? I would
expect
a wonderful improvement in performance and longevity over Dura-Ace,
given the Record's exotic materials.
Don't want to be argumentative, just wondering...

"Cipher" wrote in message
news
I just grabbed the latest copy of the Colorado Cyclist, and the rear
Dérailleurs are priced as follows: '04 Record $239.99. '04 Dura-Ace
$114.99. 52% better? I must admit, I'm hard pressed to justify the price
differences as well...

onefred wrote:
Uh, that'd be 208% (100% of the D-A cost + another 108%). What's really
amazing is that you pay all this dinero for the carbon and then it still
weighs more than the all metal D-A derailleur.

Sorry I came late to this. The first prices are fiction.
Who has actually paid $168 for a DA rear or $408 for a
Record RD? Anyone?

It's possible they may not be both from the same source.
(That is, the margin applied may be different)

Here DA RD 2004 $125 and Record $252. Last year's Record RD
were $228

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message
The $408 is, we sell it for about $325. And carbon and titanium of the Record
vs steel and aluminum of DA is the reason for the price of Record.


What's the point of all that expensive carbon and titanium if it's
heavier than the steel and aluminum DA?

What is Shimano doing "right" to get lighter weight with ordinary
materials, while Campy needs exotic materials and is still heavier?

Perhaps in this case, Shimano has a better design so they don't need
the exotic materials.

Eagle Jackson wrote:
(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message
The $408 is, we sell it for about $325. And carbon and titanium of
the Record vs steel and aluminum of DA is the reason for the price
of Record.

What's the point of all that expensive carbon and titanium if it's
heavier than the steel and aluminum DA?
What is Shimano doing "right" to get lighter weight with ordinary
materials, while Campy needs exotic materials and is still heavier?
Perhaps in this case, Shimano has a better design so they don't need the
exotic materials.




Good point. In regards to carbon vs. aluminum, the thinking is that
carbon is both lighter and stiffer than aluminum. The negative is less
durability. But for the Campy Record crankset, it is both heavier and
less stiff (according to the Velonews test in around last Nov) than the
aluminum Dura-Ace. So, you get a heavier component, less stiff
component, carbon breakable component, at a price 2-3 times more than
the better DA component! Yet, Campy does have it loyal following and
these people are willing to buy it!



--

basjan- Just seems that
twice the price for a Record derailleur with carbon and titanium and 4g
heavier than Dura-Ace should buy you a lot of improvement over Dura-Ace.
BRBR

You are mixing features with 'value'. I think the best 'value' is Veloce 10s
with Centaur hubs. MUCH cheaper than DA or Record. Expense does not relate to
reliability and often not even function. Veloce levers 'feel' and work like
Record. DA is not more anything when compared to DA 9s..it is just a wee bit
lighter and lots more expensive. Is the DA 10s crank twice as 'good' as a DA 9s
crank and BB? Nope.

basjan Even looking at the Record Carbon crankset - $$$wow$$$!! BRBR

Colnago sells one that is just shy of $1000. Chorus is not that much more than
DA 10s.


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

tom- And what real advantage does the carbon fiber and titanium provide,
other than showing off how much money was spent on it? BRBR

I agree with you, none-

If I were to race I would use a mix of Mirage, Veloce and Centaur components.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

eagle- What's the point of all that expensive carbon and titanium if it's
heavier than the steel and aluminum DA? BRBR
What is Shimano doing "right" to get lighter weight with ordinary
materials, while Campy needs exotic materials and is still heavier? BRBR

Depends on the component. ERGO is cheaper and lighter and use 'exotic'
materials.

Gotta remember that lighter is......lighter, that's all.

eagle Perhaps in this case, Shimano has a better design so they don't need
the exotic materials. BRBR

See above, look at the entire group, not just the rear der.


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

bcdi- So, you get a heavier component, less stiff
component, carbon breakable component, at a price 2-3 times more than
the better DA component! BRBR

lesse...DA crank is $400, that makes the Record crank and
BB...times...add....carry the .....gee $800 to $1200!!!! nope-

Can't wait to see a DA crank that is crashed hard, when ya bend the crank/BB
spindle interface..That won't be expensive...or when ya kill a STI lever...see
any single DA 10s levers for sale??

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " wrote in message
...
basjan- Just seems that
twice the price for a Record derailleur with carbon and titanium and 4g
heavier than Dura-Ace should buy you a lot of improvement over Dura-Ace.
BRBR

You are mixing features with 'value'. I think the best 'value' is Veloce
10s
with Centaur hubs. MUCH cheaper than DA or Record. Expense does not relate
to
reliability and often not even function. Veloce levers 'feel' and work
like
Record. DA is not more anything when compared to DA 9s..it is just a wee
bit
lighter and lots more expensive. Is the DA 10s crank twice as 'good' as a
DA 9s
crank and BB? Nope.

Good point - it's just that the double increase in price buys you no more
reliable/lighter/better features, if you focus on 'features' instead of
'value'. But one does not have to buy it!