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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes



 
 
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  #91  
Old May 26th 04, 08:09 AM
John Hearns
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

On Tue, 25 May 2004 23:16:39 +0000, Patrick Herring wrote:


IMHO a major unacknowledged factor is wanting to prolong personal
space for as long as possible, particularly when commuting to work.
Houses and cars are personal space; bikes, pavements, buses, offices
are not.

I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal.
You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them
around. Ever had one stolen?
I counter you by proposing that its a misconception among
non-cyclists that its common for people to borrow bikes, and that they
are interchangeable. You certainly can borrow a bike, but would be
uncomfortable till it gets adjusted to suit you. And they come in
different sizes.
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  #92  
Old May 26th 04, 09:02 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

John Hearns wrote:

I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal.
You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them
around. Ever had one stolen?


Yes, but that's not really the point. If some oik wants to invade your
personal space with, say, a water pistol or an insult it's far easier to
do than if you're locked in an enclosed box.
It's personal /space/, not a personal /thing/, that I think was
Patrick's point.

I counter you by proposing that its a misconception among
non-cyclists that its common for people to borrow bikes, and that they
are interchangeable. You certainly can borrow a bike, but would be
uncomfortable till it gets adjusted to suit you. And they come in
different sizes.


My mum rides my Brompton quite happily without any fiddling bar not
pulling the seatpost up so far when unfolding it. I'm 5'8", mum is
5'2". Not all bikes have small size range tolerances, but I think the
main point is that you'd need a Velomobile for separate personal space.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #93  
Old May 26th 04, 09:46 AM
John Hearns
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:02:49 +0100, Peter Clinch wrote:

John Hearns wrote:

I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal.
You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them
around. Ever had one stolen?


Yes, but that's not really the point. If some oik wants to invade your
personal space with, say, a water pistol or an insult it's far easier to
do than if you're locked in an enclosed box.
It's personal /space/, not a personal /thing/, that I think was
Patrick's point.

I wasn't wanting to be argumentative.

Maybe this should be a new thread. I think non-cyclists view bicycles
as all interchangeable.
Maybe non-drivers see cars that way too!

  #94  
Old May 26th 04, 10:00 AM
Roos Eisma
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

John Hearns writes:

Maybe this should be a new thread. I think non-cyclists view bicycles
as all interchangeable.
Maybe non-drivers see cars that way too!


Even drivers can - our first car I only could recognise when it had the
roofbars and the kayaks on. With a later car in a rather anonymous shape
and colour I usually checked the numberplate to make sure.

Is there a word to describe a sort of car dyslexia?

Roos
  #95  
Old May 26th 04, 10:53 AM
Colin Blackburn
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

On Wed, 26 May 2004 10:54:16 +0100, John Hearns wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:00:16 +0000, Roos Eisma wrote:


Even drivers can - our first car I only could recognise when it had the
roofbars and the kayaks on. With a later car in a rather anonymous shape
and colour I usually checked the numberplate to make sure.

Stop rubbing it in.
First we get someone going off to Ardnamurchan Point.
Then I realise I haven't sat in a kayak for many years.


I never have but somehow I've been roped in for an "urban adventure race"
in Edinburgh this summer, it involves some canoing/kayaking (I think the
former), orienteering and mountain biking. It seems to use the sewers too!
I guess I'd better get some learning done.

Colin

  #96  
Old May 26th 04, 10:54 AM
John Hearns
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:00:16 +0000, Roos Eisma wrote:


Even drivers can - our first car I only could recognise when it had the
roofbars and the kayaks on. With a later car in a rather anonymous shape
and colour I usually checked the numberplate to make sure.

Stop rubbing it in.
First we get someone going off to Ardnamurchan Point.
Then I realise I haven't sat in a kayak for many years.
  #97  
Old May 26th 04, 11:17 AM
Nick Kew
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

In article ,
John Hearns writes:

I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal.
You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them
around. Ever had one stolen?


Ever been to a city that makes "city" bikes available to whover needs them?

I counter you by proposing that its a misconception among
non-cyclists that its common for people to borrow bikes, and that they
are interchangeable.


In some more cycle-friendly countries, they may be much more so than here.

You certainly can borrow a bike, but would be
uncomfortable till it gets adjusted to suit you. And they come in
different sizes.


I don't see borrowing a bike as any different in principle to borrowing
a car (I expect to do the latter two weeks hence, as it'll be the one
week in the year when I'm doing more than ample physical exercise
without cycling and travelling every day at times when no public
transport is available).

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: http://www.htmlhelp.com/~nick/
  #98  
Old May 26th 04, 11:19 AM
Daniel Barlow
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

John Hearns writes:

Maybe non-drivers see cars that way [as interchangable] too!


As an occaasional driver, so do I. Every time I go back to the car
rental place they give me a different one.


-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"
  #99  
Old May 26th 04, 11:35 AM
Simon Brooke
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

in message , Patrick Herring
') wrote:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

|
| That's one of the excuses. Remove that and it becomes the hills.
| Or the
| weather. Or the lack of changing facilities at the office. Or they
| ran outta gas. Had a flat tyre. Didn't have enough money for cab
| fare. Their tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend
| came in from outta town. Someone stole their bike. There was an
| earthquake, a terrible flood, locusts. It isn't their fault, they
| swear to God!

IMHO a major unacknowledged factor is wanting to prolong personal
space for as long as possible, particularly when commuting to work.
Houses and cars are personal space; bikes, pavements, buses, offices
are not.


While I'd agree with you that (in the days I worked in cities), getting
back into _my_ car with _my_ familiar things around me and _my_ choice
of news program or no news program was a very significant event at the
end of a stressful day and this was certainly one of my reasons for
travelling by car (the other being that it was 100 miles with no public
transport at all on a substantial part of the route), I disagree that
bicycles don't have this effect. Getting on your own familiar bike and
just getting out of there is very similar (mind you, it was more
similar in the days I used habitually to cycle with a walkman with loud
rock music - something I wouldn't do now).

Come to think of it, I have in my life commuted far more often by cycle
than by any other mode of transport.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

X-no-archive: No, I'm not *that* naive.

  #100  
Old May 26th 04, 11:48 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes

Simon Brooke wrote:

transport at all on a substantial part of the route), I disagree that
bicycles don't have this effect. Getting on your own familiar bike and
just getting out of there is very similar


For the likes of us, yes, but the thing you're up against here is the
general public perception of bikes compared to cars.

Come to think of it, I have in my life commuted far more often by cycle
than by any other mode of transport.


Cycling or walking have been my only regular commute modes, and I
wouldn't have it any other way (in the UK, various possibilities for XC
ski in colder places might be good...).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 




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