Durabillity of wheels with fewer spokes.

Chalo wrote:
Sergio Moretti wrote:

Maybe cell phones are a reason people now can accept less
dependability in their bicycles.
When I started riding long distances in the 1980's, if you couldn't
ride, you had to walk...

Cell phones may partially account for the larger number of really
stupid cycling shoes in use today, too.

Chalo

Chalo,
Don't know about absolute numbers, but I don't know of any of the shoes from
the toe clips and cleats days that could be walked in. At least SPD MTB
shoes (and others) allow for walking today.
Kerry

Kerry Montgomery wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Sergio Moretti wrote:

Maybe cell phones are a reason people now can accept less
dependability in their bicycles.
When I started riding long distances in the 1980's, if you couldn't
ride, you had to walk...

Cell phones may partially account for the larger number of really
stupid cycling shoes in use today, too.

Don't know about absolute numbers, but I don't know of any of the shoes from
the toe clips and cleats days that could be walked in. At least SPD MTB
shoes (and others) allow for walking today.

The difference I can observe is that back then I didn't know anyone
who used them, and rarely ever saw them outside of stores and magazine
photos.

Chalo

On Jun 7, 2:16*pm, Chalo wrote:
Kerry Montgomery wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Sergio Moretti wrote:

Maybe cell phones are a reason people now can accept less
dependability in their bicycles.
When I started riding long distances in the 1980's, if you couldn't
ride, you had to walk...

Cell phones may partially account for the larger number of really
stupid cycling shoes in use today, too.

Don't know about absolute numbers, but I don't know of any of the shoes from
the toe clips and cleats days that could be walked in. At least SPD MTB
shoes (and others) allow for walking today.

The difference I can observe is that back then I didn't know anyone
who used them, and rarely ever saw them outside of stores and magazine
photos.

Chalo-

yeah, back in the day, I used to just ride with toe clips and running
shoes.

I don't really miss them though, because SPD MTB shoes are waaaaay
superior (and still walkable)

nate

Sergio Moretti wrote:
Maybe cell phones are a reason people now can accept less
dependability in their bicycles.
When I started riding long distances in the 1980's, if you couldn't
ride, you had to walk...

Chalo wrote:
Cell phones may partially account for the larger number of really
stupid cycling shoes in use today, too.

Indeed, my most recent SiDis date from when "mobile phone"
meant 80 pounds of gear bolted into a car. SiDis last a good
long while, as comfy as the day I bought them. 'Italian',
not 'stupid'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Jun 7, 4:23*am, thirty-six wrote:

The short road contact also reduces cornering grip, particularly
noticeable in the wet. *Smooth treads compound this.

Great, now you've awakened J.B.

sa

On 8 June, 00:51, semi-ambivalent wrote:
On Jun 7, 4:23*am, thirty-six wrote:

The short road contact also reduces cornering grip, particularly
noticeable in the wet. *Smooth treads compound this.

Great, now you've awakened J.B.

sa

This is not a problem, just run a road cleaner in front and have a man
jump off with Supergrip paint to apply to the metal bits, make sure he
has a propane torch to dry the paint within you trailing time of the
truck.

Chalo wrote:
On Jun 6, 11:11 pm, AMuzi wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
"... at least 32 spokes per wheel and would get 36 [if] they
were still available"
AMuzi wrote:
I'm not sure what that means.
I just wrote our wheel build orders for tomorrow with 36x36
track wheels, 48x48 CS/disc and a 32x36 road CS set. What
isn't 36h?
Chalo wrote:
Deep section rims in fruity colors are limited to 32h. Yes, they are
available in 36h in black and silver, but that isn't what people at my
shop are requesting for their custom builds.
The very sturdiest 700c and 26" rims are not available in 48h
drilling, as would be appropriate, but in 36h or even 32h drilling
only.
Velocity in printed patterns, you're right. 32h only

But pink green yellow etc Deep V 36h are popular.

Chukker 48h rims have been the most successful new product
of 2010 so far. Something you don't like about those?

Only the retail price. Chukkers are pretty swell. I look forward to
building up some 48 hole silver ones for myself.

I don't build up very many Velocity rims these days because they are
beyond the price tolerance of most of my customers. I forgot that
some of those "metrosexual" colors could be had in 36h.

Lately I have been looking for lower-priced deep rims in 36 hole to
build up on coaster brake hubs, but I have only found black and
silver. (All the 32 hole coaster hubs I have found in the USA were
specially ordered from the manufacturer and thus carry a price
premium, but less than that of a Velocity rim.)


A Velocity rim of excellent quality, as discussed, is $60
(Dyad) to $70 (Deep V)

Crappy rims are not only quite cheap but a whole wheel at
XMart may be had at the same price you charge for a cheap rim.

All the while, guys are actually selling multi thousand
dollar "wheel systems".

Name your poison; price range is wide, choices are broad. We
like Velocity rims here.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Jun 7, 4:32*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Sergio Moretti wrote:
Maybe cell phones are a reason people now can accept less
dependability in their bicycles.
When I started riding long distances in the 1980's, if you couldn't
ride, you had to walk...
Chalo wrote:
Cell phones may partially account for the larger number of really
stupid cycling shoes in use today, too.

Indeed, my most recent SiDis date from when "mobile phone"
meant 80 pounds of gear bolted into a car. SiDis last a good
long while, as comfy as the day I bought them. 'Italian',
not 'stupid'.

I liked my Duigis -- good old fashioned birch soled shoes. You could
walk in them if you were Dutch. I thought it was a big deal to have
bolt on rather than nail on cleats. I also had Detto, Italias,
Vittorias -- each of which delaminated when ridden in lots of rain.
None were walkable like SPD -- although I did have a pair of thick
rubber soled Bata Bikers for touring. The (not so) good old days! --
Jay Beattie.

On Jun 7, 5:13*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Chalo wrote:
On Jun 6, 11:11 pm, AMuzi wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
"... at least 32 spokes per wheel and would get 36 [if] they
were still available"
AMuzi wrote:
I'm not sure what that means.
I just wrote our wheel build orders for tomorrow with 36x36
track wheels, 48x48 CS/disc and a 32x36 road CS set. What
isn't 36h?
Chalo wrote:
Deep section rims in fruity colors are limited to 32h. *Yes, they are
available in 36h in black and silver, but that isn't what people at my
shop are requesting for their custom builds.
The very sturdiest 700c and 26" rims are not available in 48h
drilling, as would be appropriate, but in 36h or even 32h drilling
only.
Velocity in printed patterns, you're right. 32h only

But pink green yellow etc Deep V 36h are popular.

Chukker 48h rims have been the most successful new product
of 2010 so far. Something you don't like about those?

Only the retail price. *Chukkers are pretty swell. *I look forward to
building up some 48 hole silver ones for myself.

I don't build up very many Velocity rims these days because they are
beyond the price tolerance of most of my customers. *I forgot that
some of those "metrosexual" colors could be had in 36h.

Lately I have been looking for lower-priced deep rims in 36 hole to
build up on coaster brake hubs, but I have only found black and
silver. *(All the 32 hole coaster hubs I have found in the USA were
specially ordered from the manufacturer and thus carry a price
premium, but less than that of a Velocity rim.)

A Velocity rim of excellent quality, as discussed, is $60
(Dyad) to $70 (Deep V)

Crappy rims are not only quite cheap but a whole wheel at
XMart may be had at the same price you charge for a cheap rim.

All the while, guys are actually selling multi thousand
dollar "wheel systems".

Name your poison; price range is wide, choices are broad. We
like Velocity rims here.

But why buy a wheel when you can buy a wheel system? I buy a system
whenever possible. I just bought an electric razor system which is
far superior to just an electric razor.

Really, though, the reliability of low spoke count wheels is pretty
much proportional to rider weight, isn't it? Many if not most of the
low spoke count wheels are just fine for light riders (excluding the
really exotic wheels that just break, usually catestrophically). IMO,
its when you get above about 160lbs that the aluminum spoke wonder
wheels start looking not so reliable. I think there are some
reasonably reliable low spoke count wheels even for the heavier
riders, but they are the same weight as conventional wheels -- and
three times more expensive. Not my idea of value -- unless I were a
time trialist trying to maximize my aerodynamics, which I am not. --
Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie wrote:
On Jun 7, 5:13 pm, AMuzi wrote:
Chalo wrote:
On Jun 6, 11:11 pm, AMuzi wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
"... at least 32 spokes per wheel and would get 36 [if] they
were still available"
AMuzi wrote:
I'm not sure what that means.
I just wrote our wheel build orders for tomorrow with 36x36
track wheels, 48x48 CS/disc and a 32x36 road CS set. What
isn't 36h?
Chalo wrote:
Deep section rims in fruity colors are limited to 32h. Yes, they are
available in 36h in black and silver, but that isn't what people at my
shop are requesting for their custom builds.
The very sturdiest 700c and 26" rims are not available in 48h
drilling, as would be appropriate, but in 36h or even 32h drilling
only.
Velocity in printed patterns, you're right. 32h only
But pink green yellow etc Deep V 36h are popular.
Chukker 48h rims have been the most successful new product
of 2010 so far. Something you don't like about those?
Only the retail price. Chukkers are pretty swell. I look forward to
building up some 48 hole silver ones for myself.
I don't build up very many Velocity rims these days because they are
beyond the price tolerance of most of my customers. I forgot that
some of those "metrosexual" colors could be had in 36h.
Lately I have been looking for lower-priced deep rims in 36 hole to
build up on coaster brake hubs, but I have only found black and
silver. (All the 32 hole coaster hubs I have found in the USA were
specially ordered from the manufacturer and thus carry a price
premium, but less than that of a Velocity rim.)
A Velocity rim of excellent quality, as discussed, is $60
(Dyad) to $70 (Deep V)

Crappy rims are not only quite cheap but a whole wheel at
XMart may be had at the same price you charge for a cheap rim.

All the while, guys are actually selling multi thousand
dollar "wheel systems".

Name your poison; price range is wide, choices are broad. We
like Velocity rims here.

But why buy a wheel when you can buy a wheel system? I buy a system
whenever possible. I just bought an electric razor system which is
far superior to just an electric razor.

Really, though, the reliability of low spoke count wheels is pretty
much proportional to rider weight, isn't it? Many if not most of the
low spoke count wheels are just fine for light riders (excluding the
really exotic wheels that just break, usually catestrophically). IMO,
its when you get above about 160lbs that the aluminum spoke wonder
wheels start looking not so reliable. I think there are some
reasonably reliable low spoke count wheels even for the heavier
riders, but they are the same weight as conventional wheels -- and
three times more expensive. Not my idea of value -- unless I were a
time trialist trying to maximize my aerodynamics, which I am not. --
Jay Beattie.

small quibble:
I think reliability of low-spoke-count wheels might be
_inversely_ proportional to rider weight.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971