helmets gone bad

On 06/30/2010 07:24 PM, wrote:
On Jun 30, 4:52 pm, Peter wrote:
yirgster wrote:
Is there any reason to replace a helmet after X number of years if it
hasn't been subjected to crashes or the like.

I don't see why.



From the Bell website faq: Bell has a general recommendation of
replacing a helmet every three (3) years.

They might have a motive.



Is this marketing advice or does it have some reality behind it? For
example, does the 'styrofoam' become brittle and less shock absorbent
after a number of years.

I have a 25 year old styrofoam beer cooler (the ones you used to get in
the package store for $1.50) holding some even older 8mm family films.
No signs of deterioration.

My helmet is about 10 years old and, other than supplementing various
business coffers, I would like to know if there's a reason to replace
it. It's a Bell.

My helmet is also of that vintage and also a Bell. It would never occur
to me to replace it.

Please, no helmet wars posts. Thx.

New here?

Some plastic degrades (depolymerizes) if exposed to UV. Others lose
flexibility when the added plasticizers dissipate over time. Many
plastics are pretty inert for very long time periods. I've got lots of
plastic stuff that's 20,30,40 and even 50+ years old. Expanded
polystyrene is used in building insulation. I think it's expected to
last a good bit longer than 3 years.

Styro in bike helmets is usually covered with plastic or painted,
otherwise coated which might well keep UV from harming it.
Like painting the PVC roof vents on houses and other buildings.

Wonder what kind of helmets we'll be wearing (assuming) in 50 years? I
meant "they", of courseg.
--D-y

Even assuming that the helmet is subjected to degradation from UV, mine
doesn't get any exposure unless I'm actively riding. Anyone else have
different habits? (leave a helmet over the saddle of a bike parked
outdoors, I guess, would be the obvious way? Not to mention a good way
to lose a helmet?)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"yirgster" wrote in message
...
Is there any reason to replace a helmet after X number of years if it
hasn't been subjected to crashes or the like.

From the Bell website faq: Bell has a general recommendation of
replacing a helmet every three (3) years.

Is this marketing advice or does it have some reality behind it? For
example, does the 'styrofoam' become brittle and less shock absorbent
after a number of years.

My helmet is about 10 years old and, other than supplementing various
business coffers, I would like to know if there's a reason to replace
it. It's a Bell.

Please, no helmet wars posts. Thx.

Expanded polystyrene, the stuff beer coolers and helmets are mostly made
of, is relatively inert. That's not the part of the helmet likely to
suffer over time. It's the straps and buckles which can go bad,
particularly the straps, which can fray and ever break after a while. We
see quite a number of older helmets come in the door; in most cases,
people have no idea how old they are. We'll look them up in the computer
and find that their "4 year old" helmet was actually purchased 10-12
years ago. Seriously.

If a helmet looks like it's in good shape (no dents, check for cracks in
the liner, no fraying of the straps and/or appearance of the buckles
looking like they've had too much sun and become brittle), there's no
need to replace it in three years, nor probably even five. But helmets
don't live a charmed life and tend to spend more of their time
protecting nothing at all as they fall to the ground or get crunched
under stuff in a car etc.

If you believe in helmets, it makes sense to make sure it looks like
it's in great shape. If you don't believe in helmets, why would you care
and/or wear it in the first place?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

What, no Bell Biker and SkidLid guys visit your place?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/30/2010 3:52 PM, Peter Cole wrote:
yirgster wrote:
Is there any reason to replace a helmet after X number of years if it
hasn't been subjected to crashes or the like.

I don't see why.


Mfg's of motorcycle helmets say to replace them every 5 years due to UV
breaking down the structure of the device making the controlled
destruction work less well. This implies that a helmet left indoors will
remain 'good' for much longer than one left outdoors. Similarly, a
helmet left on a bike when parked will last less long than one taken
inside after use.

BTW, just four days ago I went down on my bicycle. I wasn't wearing a
helmet which may have contributed to the bruise I got on my shin.

On Jun 30, 6:39*pm, raamman wrote:
On Jun 29, 5:26*pm, yirgster wrote:

Is there any reason to replace a helmet after X number of years if it
hasn't been subjected to crashes or the like.

From the Bell website faq: Bell has a general recommendation of
replacing a helmet every three (3) years.

Is this marketing advice or does it have some reality behind it? For
example, does the 'styrofoam' become brittle and less shock absorbent
after a number of years.

My helmet is about 10 years old and, other than supplementing various
business coffers, I would like to know if there's a reason to replace
it. It's a Bell.

Please, no helmet wars posts. Thx.

no reason to replace unless you want an excuse to buy a new one- I
have discovered retention has improved quite a lot

Noise, too, at least in the ones I've had since the Bell Biker (IMS,
the Biker was the one that made it difficult to hear MV's approaching
from the rear).
--D-y

On Jun 30, 9:01*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"yirgster" wrote in message
....
Is there any reason to replace a helmet after X number of years if it
hasn't been subjected to crashes or the like.

From the Bell website faq: Bell has a general recommendation of
replacing a helmet every three (3) years.

Is this marketing advice or does it have some reality behind it? For
example, does the 'styrofoam' become brittle and less shock absorbent
after a number of years.

My helmet is about 10 years old and, other than supplementing various
business coffers, I would like to know if there's a reason to replace
it. It's a Bell.

Please, no helmet wars posts. Thx.

Expanded polystyrene, the stuff beer coolers and helmets are mostly made
of, is relatively inert. That's not the part of the helmet likely to
suffer over time. It's the straps and buckles which can go bad,
particularly the straps, which can fray and ever break after a while. We
see quite a number of older helmets come in the door; in most cases,
people have no idea how old they are. We'll look them up in the computer
and find that their "4 year old" helmet was actually purchased 10-12
years ago. Seriously.

If a helmet looks like it's in good shape (no dents, check for cracks in
the liner, no fraying of the straps and/or appearance of the buckles
looking like they've had too much sun and become brittle), there's no
need to replace it in three years, nor probably even five. But helmets
don't live a charmed life and tend to spend more of their time
protecting nothing at all as they fall to the ground or get crunched
under stuff in a car etc.

If you believe in helmets, it makes sense to make sure it looks like
it's in great shape. If you don't believe in helmets, why would you care
and/or wear it in the first place?


What, no Bell Biker and SkidLid guys visit your place?



Whatever happened to the Vetta bloc??

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._lamps_jeh.jpg

On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Wonder what kind of helmets we'll be wearing (assuming) in 50 years? I
meant "they", of course g.
--D-y

Custom fitted and computer crafted. Your head gets laser scanned in
the store to get the dimensions. The data is sent to the factory,
which returns a fitted helmet in whatever style is fashionable. It
would look much like the current line of helmets, but would have no
adjustable pads or straps and only fit the owner. This can be done
with today's technology.

The problem with Styrofoam is that it absorbs the energy of impact by
destroying itself. It might be possible to replace EPS with some
manner of liquid that increases viscosity when rapidly compressed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_Newtonian_fluid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheopecty
as used in some running shoes and body armor. This might take some
major research.

On the other end the technology curve, electronics, sensors, and
active protection might be useful. Perhaps wearing an airbag on your
head and shoulders. If the sensors detect an event suitable for
deployment, a CO2 cartridge inflates air bags covering the head, neck,
and shoulders, the later to protect the neck from hyperextension.
Maybe additional air bags at critical areas (knees, elbows,
shoulders). This will require some major research.

Once the electronics are in place, other features such as an LCD
transmission display for a rear view camera, proximity alarm, LADAR
threat detection, gyro stabilization, anti-skid electric braking,
automatic transmission (optimize gear selection), physiological
monitoring, impact recorder, and a Peltier junction beer cooler, can
easily be added. More reasearch, again.

Smart Helmet
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1008_3-6111162.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote, On 7/1/2010 12:21 PM:
snip
Once the electronics are in place, other features such as an LCD
transmission display for a rear view camera, proximity alarm, LADAR
threat detection, gyro stabilization, anti-skid electric braking,
automatic transmission (optimize gear selection), physiological
monitoring, impact recorder, and a Peltier junction beer cooler, can
easily be added. More reasearch, again.

Smart Helmet
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1008_3-6111162.html



Don't forget heated leather seats and power windows!



--

Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Wonder what kind of helmets we'll be wearing (assuming) in 50 years? I
meant "they", of course g.
--D-y

Custom fitted and computer crafted. Your head gets laser scanned in
the store to get the dimensions. The data is sent to the factory,
which returns a fitted helmet in whatever style is fashionable. It
would look much like the current line of helmets, but would have no
adjustable pads or straps and only fit the owner. This can be done
with today's technology.

Similar things have been done for years with ski boots. No lasers necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cceW__gtt_I



The problem with Styrofoam is that it absorbs the energy of impact by
destroying itself. It might be possible to replace EPS with some
manner of liquid that increases viscosity when rapidly compressed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_Newtonian_fluid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheopecty
as used in some running shoes and body armor. This might take some
major research.

On the other end the technology curve, electronics, sensors, and
active protection might be useful. Perhaps wearing an airbag on your
head and shoulders. If the sensors detect an event suitable for
deployment, a CO2 cartridge inflates air bags covering the head, neck,
and shoulders, the later to protect the neck from hyperextension.
Maybe additional air bags at critical areas (knees, elbows,
shoulders). This will require some major research.

Already here. "Personal impact jacket".

http://tinyurl.com/37vwq36


Once the electronics are in place, other features such as an LCD
transmission display for a rear view camera, proximity alarm, LADAR
threat detection, gyro stabilization, anti-skid electric braking,
automatic transmission (optimize gear selection), physiological
monitoring, impact recorder, and a Peltier junction beer cooler, can
easily be added. More reasearch, again.

Smart Helmet
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1008_3-6111162.html

It's only a matter of time before projector type HUD's (heads up
displays) show up. A cycling one would probably be integrated into
glasses, integrating all the bike computer, HRM, power/cadence & GPS/map
displays that are currently scattered around the handlebar.

http://www.zealoptics.com/transcend/

On Jul 1, 12:21*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Wonder what kind of helmets we'll be wearing (assuming) in 50 years? I
meant "they", of course g.
--D-y

Custom fitted and computer crafted. *Your head gets laser scanned in
the store to get the dimensions. *The data is sent to the factory,
which returns a fitted helmet in whatever style is fashionable. *It
would look much like the current line of helmets...

Hmm. It's hard to believe anything looking like the current line of
helmets would still be "whatever style is fashionable"!
....
On the other end the technology curve, electronics, sensors, and
active protection might be useful. *Perhaps wearing an airbag on your
head and shoulders. *If the sensors detect an event suitable for
deployment, a CO2 cartridge inflates air bags covering the head, neck,
and shoulders, the later to protect the neck from hyperextension.
Maybe additional air bags at critical areas (knees, elbows,
shoulders). *This will require some major research.

Pshaw! That was done years ago! See
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/airbag-helmet.html

Once the electronics are in place, other features such as an LCD
transmission display for a rear view camera, proximity alarm, LADAR
threat detection, gyro stabilization, anti-skid electric braking,
automatic transmission (optimize gear selection), physiological
monitoring, impact recorder, and a Peltier junction beer cooler, can
easily be added. *More reasearch, again.

I hope that before research is expended on such fantasies, that
_someone_ will notice that cycling is not, and never has been, a
significant risk for serious head injuries.

Yeah, I know - I'm an incurable optimist.

- Frank Krygowski

On Jun 29, 4:37*pm, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
yirgster wrote:
Is there any reason to replace a helmet after X number of years if it
hasn't been subjected to crashes or the like.

Replace? *No. *Augment? *Personal choice. *(I use 4 regularly, and own 7 or
8. *Others mostly mtb models.)

After that I half expected a sig like

Bill "Really big wallet" Sornson