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#51
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/21/2018 7:14 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
I just bought a kit of ring spanners from "Alpha Tools", I think it is a low-end brand, either that, or this particular kit was of so-so quality, is my intuition. Anyway they are "DIN 838". On a double open-end spanner, which is a Heyco 10 and 13mm, it says "DIN 895". It would be interesting to see what they say if anyone found them on the web and care to share... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=DIN+838&t=...ages&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=DIN+895&t=...ages&ia=images -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#52
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
Radey Shouman wrote:
Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source This is the old cathedral vs. bazaar all over, and the bazaar has won. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#53
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 01:14:24 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: I just bought a kit of ring spanners from "Alpha Tools", I think it is a low-end brand, either that, or this particular kit was of so-so quality, is my intuition. Anyway they are "DIN 838". On a double open-end spanner, which is a Heyco 10 and 13mm, it says "DIN 895". It would be interesting to see what they say if anyone found them on the web and care to share... DIN 838 Box wrenches, double head - Test torques series A Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007 DIN 895 Engineers wrenches for subordinate applications - Dimensions and test torques Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007 The details of each standard are available from the Institute upon paying a fee. -- Cheers, John B. |
#54
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:08:29 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: Emanuel Berg writes: Radey Shouman wrote: Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in people who first boast of their standards making the world better, then won't even reveal their standards free of charge when it is just a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on a web server? Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it. The sections you mention had a note that they required further editing. Perhaps because they mention a definite size and did not provide a reference. -- Cheers, John B. |
#55
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
John B. writes:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:08:29 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Emanuel Berg writes: Radey Shouman wrote: Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in people who first boast of their standards making the world better, then won't even reveal their standards free of charge when it is just a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on a web server? Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it. The sections you mention had a note that they required further editing. Perhaps because they mention a definite size and did not provide a reference. I didn't see that. All sections have an "edit" link, so you, or someone else can edit them. There are some sections that say "citation needed", but not the 73 mm pronouncement. I have never edited a Wikipedia entry, so take what I say with a grain of salt. -- |
#56
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:22:29 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: John B. writes: On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:08:29 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Emanuel Berg writes: Radey Shouman wrote: Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in people who first boast of their standards making the world better, then won't even reveal their standards free of charge when it is just a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on a web server? Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it. The sections you mention had a note that they required further editing. Perhaps because they mention a definite size and did not provide a reference. I didn't see that. All sections have an "edit" link, so you, or someone else can edit them. There are some sections that say "citation needed", but not the 73 mm pronouncement. I have never edited a Wikipedia entry, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I *think* that any Wikki page can be edited at any time. At least I remember someone on another site complaining about posting something on the Wikki and later finding it edited to "correct it". His complaint was that his original entry was factually correct and the edited version was incorrect and he was trying to find some method of locking his post so it couldn't be changed. I gathered that there was no way that an entry could be prevented from being edited. But then, I've never posted anything to the Wikki :-( -- Cheers, John B. |
#57
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 21/03/2018 4:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:30:10 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-21 12:20, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens. What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a 1mm variance. It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors! Support your LBS. I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His web site is, ahem, not quite there yet. Who cares about price! The spread couldn't be more than a buck or two, and you want to support the shop. You get cool looking bottles with graphics that make you part of the Sam's Town Cyclery in-crowd. People will come up to you on the trail while you're petting horses and want to talk about Sam's Town. You'll make friends and influence people. For about 20-30 rides, then the bottle looks blackish and sand-blasted and nothing will be readable. I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped, but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables. Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG. I don't mind either if it's a couple of buck more. Got to support the local guys which is why I bought my MTB locally for about $100 more versus online. What I do mind is if stuff costs 5x or more versus online. As is often the case with brake pads, caliper extenders, lights and so on. And then there is just getting screwed by everyone on price, i.e., things that used to be cheap are expensive everywhere. For example, at Bike Gallery: 1. 5g tube of Rema glue: $2.50. Crap! So, on line, $5.92 plus free shipping at Amazon. $2.95 at Tree Fort. http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Gram-Tube.html $8.95 plus free shipping at Niagra. https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...id-5-gram-tube $3.99 at Universal across town. Incroyable! What is up with that? 2. I try to support the LBS as much as possible. For tubes I can save a couple of bucks buying online but I usually have to buy enough to avoid shipping costs and then hope that I don't get hit with duty. So I just buy them from the shop. Tires on the other hand are getting ridiculous. I can get a pair of Conti GP4000s from ChainReactionCycles for the price of one tire locally. |
#58
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
John B. writes:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:22:29 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. writes: On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:08:29 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Emanuel Berg writes: Radey Shouman wrote: Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in people who first boast of their standards making the world better, then won't even reveal their standards free of charge when it is just a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on a web server? Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it. The sections you mention had a note that they required further editing. Perhaps because they mention a definite size and did not provide a reference. I didn't see that. All sections have an "edit" link, so you, or someone else can edit them. There are some sections that say "citation needed", but not the 73 mm pronouncement. I have never edited a Wikipedia entry, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I *think* that any Wikki page can be edited at any time. At least I remember someone on another site complaining about posting something on the Wikki and later finding it edited to "correct it". His complaint was that his original entry was factually correct and the edited version was incorrect and he was trying to find some method of locking his post so it couldn't be changed. I gathered that there was no way that an entry could be prevented from being edited. But then, I've never posted anything to the Wikki :-( Edit wars are being waged, even now, on topics that at least two people find controversial. Some of those people work for governments. Not the ideal platform for hosting a standard. -- |
#59
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/22/2018 5:48 AM, Duane wrote:
Tires on the other hand are getting ridiculous.Â* I can get a pair of Conti GP4000s from ChainReactionCycles for the price of one tire locally. The margins on tires of all kinds are huge. It's like mattresses. So there's a lot of room for discounting. But the bigger issue is actually finding the tires you want in stock. Jay has two large shops near him, as well as the Biketiresdirect pick-up option. For most of us, it would mean a lot of driving around or calling around to find the tires we wanted, and then paying 2x the price. Not the shop's fault, you can't expect a shop to stock hundreds of sizes and brands of tires. |
#60
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:52:02 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens. Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. I don't know if there is a standards body, but there is certainly a de facto standard -- same with mounting bolt spacing. That doesn't mean a manufacturer has to follow the de facto standard, but variations have usually been sold as bottle-cage combos or been advertised as being non-standard, e.g. cage for disposable plastic water bottles, etc. -- Jay Beattie. |
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