The Writing is on the Wall

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022600733.html

Five western states to bypass Bush on climate

By Timothy Gardner
Reuters
Monday, February 26, 2007; 2:28 PM

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Five Western U.S. states have formed the latest
regional pact that bypasses the Bush administration to cut emissions
linked to global warming through market mechanisms, according to
Oregon's governor.

Oregon, California, Washington, New Mexico and Arizona have agreed to
develop a regional target for reducing greenhouse emissions in six
months, according a statement from Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski.

During the next 18 months, the governors will devise a market-based
program, such as a load-based cap and trade program to reach the
target. The five states also have agreed to participate in a multi-
state registry to track and manage greenhouse gas emissions in their
region.

The Western Regional Climate Action Initiative comes on the heels of
an agreement in the East called the Regional Greenhouse Gas
Initiative.

"With the Western states you've got a huge part of the U.S. economy
that are beginning to regulate greenhouse gases," said Jeremiah
Baumann, an advocate with the Oregon State Public Interest Research
Group.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger recently passed the country's
toughest greenhouse emissions laws which aim to reduce the state's
economy-wide output of the gases by 25 percent by 2020.

Monday's agreement "sets the stage for a regional cap and trade
program, which will provide a powerful framework for developing a
national cap and trade program," Schwarzenegger said in a statement on
Monday. "This agreement shows the power of states to lead our nation
addressing climate change."

The other states in the Western pact have also passed greenhouse gas
reduction initiatives of their own. The regional pact would allow the
states to use market mechanisms more efficiently to reduce output of
the gases, said Baumann.

The United States initiated cap and trade programs on pollutants such
as acid rain components in the early 1990s.

In such markets for greenhouse gases, companies can offset their
emissions by investing in clean projects like solar and wind power, or
earn credits that they can sell for cutting their emissions at their
factories.

In 2005, the European Union formed a cap and trade program to meet its
countries' obligations under the Kyoto Protocol.

Unlike developed countries that ratified Kyoto, the United States does
not regulate carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases. President
George W. Bush withdrew from the international pact early in his first
term, saying it would hurt the economy and unfairly leave rapidly
developing countries without emissions limits in its first phase.

Greenhouse pacts on both coasts could send a message to smokestack and
transportation businesses and encourage them to lobby for a national
greenhouse plan, rather than face patchwork local regulations, Baumann
said.

Like California's recent laws, the Western pact also seeks to regulate
imports of electricity from dirty coal-burning power plants from
surrounding states outside of the agreement.

The seven states in the Eastern regional pact, which include New York
and Massachusetts, aim to cut carbon dioxide emissions at power plants
by 10 percent by 2019.

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022600733.html

Five western states to bypass Bush on climate

By Timothy Gardner
Reuters
Monday, February 26, 2007; 2:28 PM

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Five Western U.S. states have formed the latest
regional pact that bypasses the Bush administration to cut emissions
linked to global warming through market mechanisms, according to
Oregon's governor.

Oregon, California, Washington, New Mexico and Arizona have agreed to
develop a regional target for reducing greenhouse emissions in six
months, according a statement from Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski.

During the next 18 months, the governors will devise a market-based
program, such as a load-based cap and trade program to reach the
target. The five states also have agreed to participate in a multi-
state registry to track and manage greenhouse gas emissions in their
region.

The Western Regional Climate Action Initiative comes on the heels of
an agreement in the East called the Regional Greenhouse Gas
Initiative.

"With the Western states you've got a huge part of the U.S. economy
that are beginning to regulate greenhouse gases," said Jeremiah
Baumann, an advocate with the Oregon State Public Interest Research
Group.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger recently passed the country's
toughest greenhouse emissions laws which aim to reduce the state's
economy-wide output of the gases by 25 percent by 2020.

Monday's agreement "sets the stage for a regional cap and trade
program, which will provide a powerful framework for developing a
national cap and trade program," Schwarzenegger said in a statement on
Monday. "This agreement shows the power of states to lead our nation
addressing climate change."

The other states in the Western pact have also passed greenhouse gas
reduction initiatives of their own. The regional pact would allow the
states to use market mechanisms more efficiently to reduce output of
the gases, said Baumann.

The United States initiated cap and trade programs on pollutants such
as acid rain components in the early 1990s.

In such markets for greenhouse gases, companies can offset their
emissions by investing in clean projects like solar and wind power, or
earn credits that they can sell for cutting their emissions at their
factories.

In 2005, the European Union formed a cap and trade program to meet its
countries' obligations under the Kyoto Protocol.

Unlike developed countries that ratified Kyoto, the United States does
not regulate carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases. President
George W. Bush withdrew from the international pact early in his first
term, saying it would hurt the economy and unfairly leave rapidly
developing countries without emissions limits in its first phase.

Greenhouse pacts on both coasts could send a message to smokestack and
transportation businesses and encourage them to lobby for a national
greenhouse plan, rather than face patchwork local regulations, Baumann
said.

Like California's recent laws, the Western pact also seeks to regulate
imports of electricity from dirty coal-burning power plants from
surrounding states outside of the agreement.

The seven states in the Eastern regional pact, which include New York
and Massachusetts, aim to cut carbon dioxide emissions at power plants
by 10 percent by 2019.

Ain't politics wonderful. Sooner or later these states will actually elect
someone with an IQ above that of a parrot and then what? Will this elected
official then actually read scientific papers and figure out that NO ONE is
meeting the Kyoto protocols now and if they did it wouldn't make ANY
difference whatsoever?

Ain't politics wonderful. Sooner or later these states will actually elect
someone with an IQ above that of a parrot and then what? Will this elected
official then actually read scientific papers and figure out that NO ONE
is meeting the Kyoto protocols now and if they did it wouldn't make ANY
difference whatsoever?

Absolutely not true. Even if the measures currently in place (and, according
to you, not being met) aren't enough to make a difference, they're at least
introducing people to the idea that we may have to make some serious changes
down the road.

If it turns out that we can't stop or change what's happening, we are at
least becoming more aware of what's going on, and will better be able to
adapt as required. That's the worst-case scenario. The best situation would
be learning what it might take to actually mitigate the climate changes.

It is difficult to come up with a case that we're better off by burying our
heads in the sand, even if it turns out in the end that we're powerless to
prevent global warming.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
t...
Ain't politics wonderful. Sooner or later these states will actually
elect someone with an IQ above that of a parrot and then what? Will this
elected official then actually read scientific papers and figure out that
NO ONE is meeting the Kyoto protocols now and if they did it wouldn't
make ANY difference whatsoever?

Absolutely not true.

Mike, what we're seeing is a global climate variation caused by solar
cycles. CO2 has essentially no effect on this cycle.

The really weird thing about this is that the PAPERS that compose the data
for IPCC almost all show that and yet the "executive summary" makes false
and misleading claims. Now the latest IPCC report hasn't been released
because they're CHANGING THE PAPERS TO REFLECT THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY!

CO2 composes only 2-3% of the greenhouse gases and here's the kicker - there
is already more than enough CO2 in the atmosphere to have closed off the
reflection window of CO2 - that means that more CO2 doesn't cause more
heating.

The world is going nuts around us and I'd sure like to know why. We've
always been told that if you want to know who is controlling everything
follow the money - well - who is pouring money into the global warming
nonsense?

Here's the bottom line - we are in an interglacial period and we can expect
climate variations like what we've been seeing. Studies on the previous 4
interglacial periods demonstrate MORE heating than we've seen in this one.

Explain this - the Senate voted 97 to nothing AGAINST the Kyoto Protocols.
What do you know that they didn't?

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022600733.html

Five western states to bypass Bush on climate

By Timothy Gardner
Reuters
Monday, February 26, 2007; 2:28 PM

-snip-

It is customary, and polite, to start the subject of off-topic postings
with "OT:"

-S-

Explain this - the Senate voted 97 to nothing AGAINST the Kyoto Protocols.
What do you know that they didn't?

Hmm. Good point. That's the same senate that took at face value only the
part of the intelligence information that said Iraq had WMDs. Didn't bother
to look any further.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On Feb 26, 8:07 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:


Mike, what we're seeing is a global climate variation caused by solar
cycles. CO2 has essentially no effect on this cycle.

dumbass,

put your money where your mouth is.

let's agree to a standard which will prove or disprove your statement,
and i will bet you $500 that your statement is wrong.

"Steve Freides" wrote in message
...
"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022600733.html

Five western states to bypass Bush on climate

By Timothy Gardner
Reuters
Monday, February 26, 2007; 2:28 PM

-snip-

It is customary, and polite, to start the subject of off-topic
postings with "OT:"

That's like asking someone who is up to their neck in outhouse effluent
to pontificate about fragrance and redolence.

Phil H

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
...
Explain this - the Senate voted 97 to nothing AGAINST the Kyoto
Protocols. What do you know that they didn't?

Hmm. Good point. That's the same senate that took at face value only
the part of the intelligence information that said Iraq had WMDs.
Didn't bother to look any further.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
I'm with Tom on this one. There are too many reputable scientists who
doubt the role that CO2 plays in climate change. Anyone who says this is
a moral issue and not a political one (Al Gore when winning his part of
an Oscar) is either a liar or an idiot. Having said that, I'll go with a
reduction in CO2 emissions if it means reducing our dependence on oil.
Yeh well, you can see how the politics come into play.

Phil H

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
...
Explain this - the Senate voted 97 to nothing AGAINST the Kyoto
Protocols. What do you know that they didn't?

Hmm. Good point. That's the same senate that took at face value only the
part of the intelligence information that said Iraq had WMDs. Didn't
bother to look any further.

Yeah, those people with actual access to the intelligence are so much more
stupid than those of us who haven't.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal
here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
security threat we face." Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times
since 1983." Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.
Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom
Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D,
CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a
licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by Joe
Lieberman (D-CT), John McCain (Rino-AZ) and others, Dec. 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." Sen. Robert Byrd (D,
WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I b elieve
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002.

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members
.... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton (D,
NY), Oct 10, 2002.

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Bob Graham
(D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002.

If there's one thing we can count on, it's that people who know the least
about what's going on are likely to be the loudest about how everyone else
should have known better.