What's up with Bigha?

Larry Varney wrote:
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

MLB wrote:

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote in
:

skip wrote:

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote in message
...

snip

When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will
be a review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by
giving it a good review is pretty meaningless.



I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they
will always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to
be foolish. Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for
sale three months later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of
sorts. Or ask them a year later what they think.

Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a
ringer or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of
Martin (cant think of his last name) reviews because they seem to be
nothing more than shuck and jive for his latest sponsor neatly
interwoven into some cross country ride infomercial. I think I can
tell when a reviewer really likes a bike, doesn't like one, or is
just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on Line and Recumbent
Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their reveiwers. I know
Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several occasions and has
been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the matter.

skip



Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
$3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent
bikes would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones.
If you want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost.
The Bigha is designed for people who don't know anything about
recumbents. That's how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand




So why do you keep asking what experienced benter would pay 3k for
it??????????????



Because I'm wondering why so many reviewers are saying how great this
bike is even though they would never buy it themselves. It reminds me
of the Segway. Lots of great reviews because they sent out lots of
review units to people who they knew would give positive reviews, but
no one, not even the reviewers who say it's great, are buying the
thing because it costs such a ridiculous amount. Like the Segway, the
Bigha is an overpriced solution in search of a problem. Is there such
a shortage of slow heavy comfort bents that we need to pay $3000.00
for one?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand


I don't recall any reviewers saying how great the BigHA is. Can you
name the websites and/or magazines where you've seen these reviews?
And speaking of unbiased and/or negative reviews - have you read any
of the reviews on either http://www.bentrideronline.com or in Recumbent
Cyclist News? Were they all positive, glowing reports? Or were there
negative comments as well?
I have never seen a BigHA except in advertisements. Have you? You seem
to have a pretty negative opinion of it. Is it based solely on the
price, ride, handling, whatever? I'm interested in how you formulated
your opinion.


Read Ball's comments. On his site, all the current reviews are positive.
I don't recall any "don't buy" reviews. Are there any? Glen Goldstein
posted a very favorable review on the BikeE list, but he's not buying
one either. There's been others. But no one is actually willing to pay
$3000.00 for a 50 pound bike. Are you going to pay $3000.00 for one?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
Larry Varney wrote:

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

MLB wrote:

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote in
:

skip wrote:

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote in message
...

snip

When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will
be a review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by
giving it a good review is pretty meaningless.



I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they
will always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to
be foolish. Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for
sale three months later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of
sorts. Or ask them a year later what they think.

Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a
ringer or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of
Martin (cant think of his last name) reviews because they seem to be
nothing more than shuck and jive for his latest sponsor neatly
interwoven into some cross country ride infomercial. I think I can
tell when a reviewer really likes a bike, doesn't like one, or is
just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on Line and Recumbent
Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their reveiwers. I know
Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several occasions and has
been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the matter.

skip




Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
$3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent
bikes would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones.
If you want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost.
The Bigha is designed for people who don't know anything about
recumbents. That's how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand




So why do you keep asking what experienced benter would pay 3k for
it??????????????




Because I'm wondering why so many reviewers are saying how great this
bike is even though they would never buy it themselves. It reminds me
of the Segway. Lots of great reviews because they sent out lots of
review units to people who they knew would give positive reviews, but
no one, not even the reviewers who say it's great, are buying the
thing because it costs such a ridiculous amount. Like the Segway, the
Bigha is an overpriced solution in search of a problem. Is there such
a shortage of slow heavy comfort bents that we need to pay $3000.00
for one?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand


I don't recall any reviewers saying how great the BigHA is. Can you
name the websites and/or magazines where you've seen these reviews?
And speaking of unbiased and/or negative reviews - have you read any
of the reviews on either http://www.bentrideronline.com or in
Recumbent Cyclist News? Were they all positive, glowing reports? Or
were there negative comments as well?
I have never seen a BigHA except in advertisements. Have you? You
seem to have a pretty negative opinion of it. Is it based solely on
the price, ride, handling, whatever? I'm interested in how you
formulated your opinion.


Read Ball's comments. On his site, all the current reviews are positive.
I don't recall any "don't buy" reviews. Are there any? Glen Goldstein
posted a very favorable review on the BikeE list, but he's not buying
one either. There's been others. But no one is actually willing to pay
$3000.00 for a 50 pound bike. Are you going to pay $3000.00 for one?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand


I have read his reviews, this month's as well as others. And while
none of the reviews were completely negative - a "don't buy" review -
there were several comments that weren't favorable.
The thing is, there are very few recumbents being sold that are so
horrendous as to be judged completely unsuitable for everyone. And,
there are none that are perfect for everyone, either. Read the reviews
and you'll find the negative comments.
So, what's been your experience with the BigHA? Have you ever
actually seen one? Rode one? Or are all your negative comments just
because of the price? Do you feel that it is totally unsuitable for
everyone ("No one is actually willing to pay $3000.00 for a 50 pound
bike.") based on your total lack of any actual contact with the bike?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

Larry Varney wrote:

[ 105 lines of quoted text deleted ]

Doesn't anyone know how to trim posts? )

I have read his reviews, this month's as well as others. And while
none of the reviews were completely negative - a "don't buy" review -
there were several comments that weren't favorable.
The thing is, there are very few recumbents being sold that are so
horrendous as to be judged completely unsuitable for everyone. And,
there are none that are perfect for everyone, either.

Given the prices for recumbents, it would be economic suicide to build a
recumbent that truly sucked. Besides, good bikes of any kind aren't
at all cheap. A high-quality utility bike can come close to an EZ-1 in
price; a Moulton can reach Ti-Rush levels.

--
Russ --kill the wabbit
"The best thing about that show was the number of cars that exploded
into huge fireballs. If only 'twere so...." -Chalo Colina, "CHiPs"

Does a comfort recumbent HAVE to cost $3000.00? Are there a lot of
riders who don't care a lick about cost? Is there any reason to think
that non-cyclists Bigha buyers will be disappointed when they find out
they could have bought a similar bike for half the cost?

Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to give
bad reviews and cut off the supply? How many "don't buy this bike"
reviews have BentRiderOnline given? Can someone who's income depends on
ad revenue give an unbiased review?

Do you read or trust ANY magazine that reviews products? Every
publication out there relies on ad revenue to some extent. If they
didn't, subscriptions would have to cost $100 a year. I have no need
to defend my reviews and won't get into it here. I just think that
you have a very inaccurate perception of how the media industry works
if you're criticizing me for taking in ad revenue.
Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

'BentRider wrote:
Does a comfort recumbent HAVE to cost $3000.00? Are there a lot of
riders who don't care a lick about cost? Is there any reason to think
that non-cyclists Bigha buyers will be disappointed when they find out
they could have bought a similar bike for half the cost?

Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to give
bad reviews and cut off the supply? How many "don't buy this bike"
reviews have BentRiderOnline given? Can someone who's income depends on
ad revenue give an unbiased review?


Do you read or trust ANY magazine that reviews products? Every
publication out there relies on ad revenue to some extent. If they
didn't, subscriptions would have to cost $100 a year. I have no need
to defend my reviews and won't get into it here. I just think that
you have a very inaccurate perception of how the media industry works
if you're criticizing me for taking in ad revenue.
Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

In order to remain completely independent, Consumer Reports does not
accept any ads and it costs just $26 a year, less then many magazines
that are ad supported. But then the Consumers Union, who publish CR, is
a nonprofit organization and not out to maximize profits. No publication
that accepts ad revenue can be independent. It couldn't maximize profits
if it was. Because Consumer Reports does not accept ads or free samples,
paying retail for all tested items, it is the most trusted source of
consumer reviews.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

"Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...

(8 million needlessly quoted lines snipped)

My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?

Its just a review. It doesn't mean you can't form your own opinion.
Does movie reviewers have to buy stock in the filmcompanies
for you to take their reviews seriously?

I'm looking forward to the Bigha review but I doubt it would make me
buy one even if it was dubbed the greatest recumbent of all times.
Which it wont be. BROL's reviews always gives you the full picture IMHO.

If you want to test that thesis pick a review of a bike that many people here own
and ask them to comment on the review.

Btw. anyone who used the epithet "speed freak" shall hereby be known as
"Grumpy old slugs." ;o)

Regards
Mikael
Copenhagen, Denmark (Happy now, Ed? ;o) )

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:


Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to
give bad reviews and cut off the supply?

Be advised that Bryan is not the only person who tests machines and writes
reviews for BROL. The Trice Micro, for example, tested a year or so ago,
was on loan from ICE. I can say with absolute conviction that had it been a
dog, the reviewer would have said so. However, the Micro is a cracking
machine, and thus the question did not arise.

Whether Bryan would have been happy to publish an unfavourable is another
matter, but since other publications routinely give poor products a pasting,
I see no reason to believe BROL should be any different. Nissan continued
to advertise with the UK's CAR magazine even after they wrote "Now that the
Chevrolet Camaro is no longer sold in the UK, the Nissan Serena can now
claim the title it has long deserved, that of Worst New Car On Sale In
Britain", or something similar.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

Lorenzo, what's the problem? Why not just say "I don't like Bigha"
and leave it at that? I'm sure they make a very nice product. Maybe
it's not the bike you're looking for, but that doesn't make it a
complete rip off.

You said buying a Rolex is a waste of money. True: you can buy a
cheap watch that still tells time. But will it last as long as a
Rolex? Will the manufacturer stand behind their product the way Rolex
does? Yes, you are paying for fashion and the name brand - which is
worth something. But you're also buying quality.

Why not buy all your clothes at Goodwill? Take it a step further: why
not just use leaves to cover yourself - as long as you cover yourself,
right?

Bryan will give this bike a fair review. I'm sure the folks at Bigha
didn't make him sign anything saying he'd only say positive things
about it. I doubt that Glen Goldstein was told the same either. If
you're reading so many positive reviews about the bike, chaces are
it's pretty damned nice. Is that such a far fetched proposition?

My guess is you just can't accept that those with the financial
ability to construct a bike don't view it in the same light you do.
Maybe also a little bitterness at the fact you can't afford such a
bike?

Either way, get over it my friend! You're looking like a jerk... which
I'm sure you're not.


My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?

I'm sure that the Bigha is not completely unsuitable for everyone. It is
probably just fine for people with more money then they can spend and no
knowledge of bicycles. The same type of people who buy Segways.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields

Btw. anyone who used the epithet "speed freak" shall hereby be known as
"Grumpy old slugs." ;o)

Regards
Mikael
Copenhagen, Denmark (Happy now, Ed? ;o) )

I'm certain your comment above is just "tongue in cheek", right
Mikael? ;-) Just for clarification purposes, I don't think anyone here
is against "speed". But there are those who are speed over utility
and that is unacceptable. This is alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent...not
rec.bicycles.racing. For those "speed freaks" there is the HPV list
but even there they talk about all types of human powered vehicles and
view them in all aspects whether they're fast or not. One think
though, they're very serious and would never accept the charades that
go on in a.r.b.r. You'd get kicked off the list in a hurry!!!

On this discussion, I would not continue to argue with Lorenzo. It's
feeding the troll so to speak. IMHO, it's already time to let this
thread die.

Peace

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?



I have mentioned before that I have never seen, much less ridden, a
BigHA. So, I have very little to go on, other than the price and
pictures I've seen, to determine whether or not I'll ever buy one.
Additionally, there's the factor that I already have an upright
recumbent and two recumbent trikes. I doubt if I'd buy a Gold Rush for
the same $3000, and it's not because I don't like the Gold Rush so much
as I don't need another bike.
I have seen and ridden a Gold Rush, so that helps me decide not to
buy one right now. I have not seen nor ridden a BigHA. That is the big
determining factor for it.




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney