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#691
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
Derek C wrote:
You are much more likely to head butt the tarmac, pavement, ground, or vehicle in the course of a cycle accident than you would in a glider accident. Seems head injuries for glider pilots are not unknown by any means: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2794833.stm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-crashes.html http://www.gremline.com/index_files/page0043.htm -- Tony " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell |
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#692
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
In article ,
Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote: Sorry, 0/10 for arithmetic. There are about 15,000, 70% of which cycle. Is it really as low as 70%? I'd have estimated at least 95%, based partly on the fact that I've never actually met an undergraduate at Cambridge who didn't cycle, so 4% is "benefit of the doubt" allied to the fact that I know of the existence of a few students with disabilities (although I don't actually know any) which probably account for less than 1%. It was a wild guess, but probably fairly accurate. How on earth do non-cycling students get around? I know those with disabilities would be allowed a car, but that's a tiny number. It may surprise you, but humans used to travel fair distances before bicycles were invented, using a method of locomotion known as "walking". Some still do. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#693
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
On Jun 17, 11:24*pm, Tony Raven wrote:
Derek C wrote: You are much more likely to head butt the tarmac, pavement, ground, or vehicle in the course of a cycle accident than *you would in a glider accident. Seems head injuries for glider pilots are not unknown by any means: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2...s/page0043.htm -- Two of these reports are the same accident. The other one (ASW20 glider) was a cartwheel from a winch launch, where the glider would tend to crash upside down, a very rare type of accident. These are the exceptions rather than the rule. In normal flight it is more important to be able to fully turn your head to keep a good lookout to avoid mid- air collisions. Many higher performance gliders have very limited headroom, so you wouldn't be able to fit a helmet in and/or be able to turn your head properly. This is another example of a psycholist saying that if you wear a helmet on a bike, you also have to wear it for other totally inappropriate activities! Derek C |
#694
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
On Jun 17, 11:42*pm, wrote:
In article , Phil W Lee *phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote: Sorry, 0/10 for arithmetic. *There are about 15,000, 70% of which cycle. Is it really as low as 70%? I'd have estimated at least 95%, based partly on the fact that I've never actually met an undergraduate at Cambridge who didn't cycle, so 4% is "benefit of the doubt" allied to the fact that I know of the existence of a few students with disabilities (although I don't actually know any) which probably account for less than 1%. It was a wild guess, but probably fairly accurate. How on earth do non-cycling students get around? I know those with disabilities would be allowed a car, but that's a tiny number. It may surprise you, but humans used to travel fair distances before bicycles were invented, using a method of locomotion known as "walking". *Some still do. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Even if 95% of Cambridge students cycle, the gliding death rate applied to them would still only be 1.4 fatalities per annum. Gliding is a risk sport, but it's much safer than motorcycling and horse riding. Derek C |
#695
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:41:18 -0700 (PDT), Derek C wrote:
On Jun 17, 6:47*pm, Ian Smith wrote: On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, Derek C wrote: *On Jun 17, 1:35*pm, Ian Smith wrote: On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:48:40 -0700 (PDT), Derek C wrote: *I think that cycle helmets should have a thin hard shell, something *like motorcycle helmets, so that they slide better. Would that remove *your objection? A thin hard shell would not necessarily slide better. *What material do you propose to make it from? *Most existing helmets have a very thin shell, and most slide worse than hair and scalp. *Motorcycle helmets are designed to slide and are made from composities *or molded ABS or polycarbonate. see: *http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...lmet_review/in... Err, no, that link does not say that motorcycle helmets are designed to slide better than hair and scalp. *It doesn't even say they are designed to slide to any performance criterion, only that they are designed to resist the effects of sliding (ie abrasion). *Try again. I would imagine that molded polycarbonate would slide very well. It's the same stuff as they use for unbreakable headlight lenses in modern cars, and it's very hard and smooth So you agree your statement "motorcycle helmets are designed to slide" was rubbish, thank you. Your proposal for what to make the shell of helmets from is polycarbonate. You "imagine" that this will slide well, but have no basis for the opinion other than your imagination. Polycarbonate is not a particularly hard material, despite your assertion. -- |\ /| no .sig |o o| |/ \| |
#696
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
On Jun 18, 6:19*am, Ian Smith wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:41:18 -0700 (PDT), Derek C wrote: *On Jun 17, 6:47*pm, Ian Smith wrote: On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, Derek C wrote: *On Jun 17, 1:35*pm, Ian Smith wrote: On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:48:40 -0700 (PDT), Derek C wrote: *I think that cycle helmets should have a thin hard shell, something *like motorcycle helmets, so that they slide better. Would that remove *your objection? A thin hard shell would not necessarily slide better. *What material do you propose to make it from? *Most existing helmets have a very thin shell, and most slide worse than hair and scalp. *Motorcycle helmets are designed to slide and are made from composities *or molded ABS or polycarbonate. see: *http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...lmet_review/in... Err, no, that link does not say that motorcycle helmets are designed to slide better than hair and scalp. *It doesn't even say they are designed to slide to any performance criterion, only that they are designed to resist the effects of sliding (ie abrasion). *Try again.. *I would imagine that molded polycarbonate would slide very well. It's *the same stuff as they use for unbreakable headlight lenses in modern *cars, and it's very hard and smooth So you agree your statement "motorcycle helmets are designed to slide" was rubbish, thank you. Your proposal for what to make the shell of helmets from is polycarbonate. *You "imagine" that this will slide well, but have no basis for the opinion other than your imagination. *Polycarbonate is not a particularly hard material, despite your assertion. The hard shell on motorcycle helmets is there to resist intrusions from sharp objects, to slide and to protect your head against abrasion. Remember that motorcyclists can come off at very high speeds and can slide for some distance: If I may quote from: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html "A motorcycle helmet has two major parts: the outer shell and the energy-absorbing inner liner. The inner lining is made of expanded polystyrene or EPS, the same stuff used in beer coolers, foam coffee cups, and packing material. Outer shells come in two basic flavors: a resin/fiber composite, such as fiberglass, carbon fiber and Kevlar, or a molded thermoplastic such as ABS or polycarbonate, the same basic stuff used in face shields and F-16 canopies. The shell is there for a number of reasons. First, it's supposed to protect against pointy things trying to penetrate the EPS—though that almost never happens in a real accident. Second, the shell protects against abrasion, which is a good thing when you're sliding into the chicane at Daytona. Third, it gives Troy Lee a nice, smooth surface to paint dragons on. Riders—and helmet marketers—pay a lot of attention to the outer shell and its material. But the part of the helmet that absorbs most of the energy in a crash is actually the inner liner." Please note that cycle helmets are made of the same EPS material as the liners in m/c helmets, and that is the part of them that does the energy absorption in a crash. Derek C |
#697
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
Derek C wrote:
This is another example of a psycholist saying that if you wear a helmet on a bike, you also have to wear it for other totally inappropriate activities! No, its an example of cyclists saying that helmets are no more appropriate for cycling than other activities of similar risk levels, especially as there is no demonstrated safety benefit of cycling helmets. -- Tony " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell |
#698
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
In article , Phil W Lee wrote:
considered Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:08:58 +0100 (BST) the perfect time to write: Sorry, 0/10 for arithmetic. There are about 15,000, 70% of which cycle. Is it really as low as 70%? I'd have estimated at least 95%, based partly on the fact that I've never actually met an undergraduate at Cambridge who didn't cycle I knew a few. How on earth do non-cycling students get around? They walked. |
#699
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
In article ,
Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote: How on earth do non-cycling students get around? I know those with disabilities would be allowed a car, but that's a tiny number. It may surprise you, but humans used to travel fair distances before bicycles were invented, using a method of locomotion known as "walking". Some still do. I just find it surprising that anyone can manage time wise, given the geographical distribution of the university and the lecture schedules. If the students have back-to-back lectures on significantly separated sites, they can't get between them anyway, and the scheduling is designed to avoid that. If they don't, there is no problem. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#700
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Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries
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