[OT] engineer comments please

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 10:47:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/17/2021 10:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/17/2021 8:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 19:49:16 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/17/2021 7:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 10:01:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2021 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Tell us you dumb asshole - what is this?
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/k...eel-plant-tour
Docks and spindles of steel and water used in the processing of
the steel. "Well it wasn't that way when I worked there. Duhhhh".
It isn't as if steel mills the entire world over aren't exactly
the same.

Nice find. However, there's a problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatau_Steel#Production_facilities
"Krakatau Steel has six production plants..." You can see which plant
is shown in each image by clicking on the image. For example, the
small middle photo showing water dripping down onto a slab of hot
rolled steel is labeled:
"A steel slab runs through the laminar cooling process in the hot
strip mill area of the PT Krakatau Steel plant in Cilegon, Banten
province, Indonesia, on Thursday, Feb. 21, 2013."

While you are correct that large amounts of water is used in steel
production, most of it is re-used:
https://www.ispatguru.com/water-used-in-steel-plant-and-its-types/
"Enormous quantity of water is needed at every stage of production.
Less than 10% of this water is actually consumed and balance water is
usually is returned to the system."
It's like a water fountain closed system. Lots of water moving, but
little is lost. The article goes no to describe typical uses for
water in what I presume is a typical steel mill.

Trivia: I attended college in Pomona, California. Nearby was the
Kaiser Steel plant in Fontana. At the time, it was one of the largest
steel plants in the US and made much of the steel used during WWII for
ship building:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Steel
If you look at a map of the Fontana area, you might notice that there
are no nearby waterways capable of moving large quantities of ore or
steel:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZxuVt581zSzZ8j1r5
The nearby Santa Ana River is dry most of the year. However, if you
look at the rail map of the Fontana area:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=010cb07a67a4437f9db5e72090adb0dc

you might notice that there are quite a few nearby railroads going E-W
and N-S.

What you and Tommy seem to have missed, or ignored, is my mention that
I worked at the Krakatau Steel Project when it was being built, or
maybe I said under constriction. That mammoth 700 acre plot that they
brag about didn't exist when I was there - it was jungle.
The rolling mill existed as a uncompleted project partially built by
the Russians and required complete rebuilding by the British firm
hired to do mill portion of the project. Nope the only water required
when I was there was potable water and that required to flush the
toilets :-) Oh, I forgot, the first project built at the Krakatau
site, after housing for management, was the golf course. You see
Management did have their ducks in a row :-)


Well, a project does need potable water because humans can't
work without it. But toilets can. Just about any fluid would
do, including whatever the blue material is on commercial
airplanes.

And way back when toilets were a hole in a board over a hole in the
ground :-)


Governments don't permit construction for a project with a cess pit for
the labor.

Girlfriend's family bought her farm before Wisconsin was a State. Th pit
moved here and there over the years but worked, such as it was. Women
started every day by hauling a pail up out of the spring until in 1960
her father ran a pipe with an electric pump from the spring to real
indoor plumbing which flowed out in the septic field he laid.

But now the State in it wisdom bans drinking spring water and required
her to have a well drilled. That water needs an annual State test. The
septic field is no more, now licensed concrete tanks are pumped out by a
licensed hauler.
I can see that on a private farm with enough acreage, a septic leach
field far enough from the property line should be no problem and
nobody's business.

But within a block of me, a rather exclusive private street is served by
ancient septic tanks. Some are badly maintained and occasionally leak
sewage into the creek running through our local forest preserve. In my
book, that's a problem.

Does your state _really_ prohibit drinking spring water? This source
seems to imply otherwise: https://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/DG/DG0094.pdf

(And how would they know?)

I think that we would ALL like to believe that. But there are many counties here in California that claim that outhouses can "leach sewage into the water table." I suppose this could be possible in the most extraordinary conditions but as a rule it is literally impossible.

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:20:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/18/2021 12:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/17/2021 10:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/17/2021 8:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 19:49:16 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 5/17/2021 7:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 10:01:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann

wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2021 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Tell us you dumb asshole - what is this?
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/k...eel-plant-tour
Docks and spindles of steel and water used in the
processing of the steel. "Well it wasn't that way
when I worked there. Duhhhh". It isn't as if steel
mills the entire world over aren't exactly the same.

Nice find. However, there's a problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatau_Steel#Production_facilities

"Krakatau Steel has six production plants..."Â You
can see which plant
is shown in each image by clicking on the image. For
example, the
small middle photo showing water dripping down onto a
slab of hot
rolled steel is labeled:
"A steel slab runs through the laminar cooling process
in the hot
strip mill area of the PT Krakatau Steel plant in
Cilegon, Banten
province, Indonesia, on Thursday, Feb. 21, 2013."

While you are correct that large amounts of water is
used in steel
production, most of it is re-used:
https://www.ispatguru.com/water-used-in-steel-plant-and-its-types/

"Enormous quantity of water is needed at every stage
of production.
Less than 10% of this water is actually consumed and
balance water is
usually is returned to the system."
It's like a water fountain closed system. Lots of
water moving, but
little is lost. The article goes no to describe
typical uses for
water in what I presume is a typical steel mill.

Trivia:Â I attended college in Pomona, California.Â
Nearby was the
Kaiser Steel plant in Fontana. At the time, it was
one of the largest
steel plants in the US and made much of the steel used
during WWII for
ship building:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Steel
If you look at a map of the Fontana area, you might
notice that there
are no nearby waterways capable of moving large
quantities of ore or
steel:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZxuVt581zSzZ8j1r5
The nearby Santa Ana River is dry most of the year.Â
However, if you
look at the rail map of the Fontana area:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=010cb07a67a4437f9db5e72090adb0dc

you might notice that there are quite a few nearby
railroads going E-W
and N-S.

What you and Tommy seem to have missed, or ignored, is
my mention that
I worked at the Krakatau Steel Project when it was
being built, or
maybe I said under constriction. That mammoth 700 acre
plot that they
brag about didn't exist when I was there - it was jungle.
The rolling mill existed as a uncompleted project
partially built by
the Russians and required complete rebuilding by the
British firm
hired to do mill portion of the project. Nope the only
water required
when I was there was potable water and that required to
flush the
toilets :-) Oh, I forgot, the first project built at
the Krakatau
site, after housing for management, was the golf
course. You see
Management did have their ducks in a row :-)


Well, a project does need potable water because humans
can't
work without it. But toilets can. Just about any fluid
would
do, including whatever the blue material is on commercial
airplanes.

And way back when toilets were a hole in a board over a
hole in the
ground :-)


Governments don't permit construction for a project with a
cess pit for the labor.

Girlfriend's family bought her farm before Wisconsin was a
State. Th pit moved here and there over the years but
worked, such as it was. Women started every day by hauling
a pail up out of the spring until in 1960 her father ran a
pipe with an electric pump from the spring to real indoor
plumbing which flowed out in the septic field he laid.

But now the State in it wisdom bans drinking spring water
and required her to have a well drilled. That water needs
an annual State test. The septic field is no more, now
licensed concrete tanks are pumped out by a licensed hauler.

I can see that on a private farm with enough acreage, a
septic leach field far enough from the property line should
be no problem and nobody's business.

But within a block of me, a rather exclusive private street
is served by ancient septic tanks. Some are badly maintained
and occasionally leak sewage into the creek running through
our local forest preserve. In my book, that's a problem.

Does your state _really_ prohibit drinking spring water?
This source seems to imply otherwise:
https://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/DG/DG0094.pdf

(And how would they know?)


Yes they determined that her source was not deep enough,
typical in her area. Where I grew up there were some
artesian springs coming up from limestone and that's a
different thing.-

This is the USA and indeed there is little river traffic west of the Mississippi. We use railroads to do the heavy cargo that isn't carried coastal on freighters.

On Tue, 18 May 2021 07:19:43 -0700, Tom Kunich scribed:

On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:

Tom really needs to embark on a world tour to explain to all these
countries why they need to rebuild all their HSR lines to a wider
gauge.
I have been waiting for you to tell us what your training is in and what
experience you've had at anything other than Marxism.

Lol, I've laid plenty of railroad track in my lifetime.
much prefer the challenges to scenic mountain routes compared to HSv
boredom.
What about you silly little tommy?

On 5/18/2021 7:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:22:56 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/18/2021 8:43 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:

snip
It really puts a crimp in your plans for a libertarian utopia when you
start thinking about how the (sub)average human would react to a society
without rules.
But what about your freedoms?!
Why don't you tell me what freedoms you have now? You can't go into a store without a mask on because of the demands of your government. Even Fauci says masks are necessary now. And yet I couldn't get into a coffee shop today because they demanded masks. I have shown you the CDC has run many studies and the latest as late as last March and updated by May that said that MASKS DO NOTHING. So again - what freedoms do you have ?


Freedom to carp and moan on RBT!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:11:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:20:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/18/2021 12:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/17/2021 10:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/17/2021 8:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 19:49:16 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 5/17/2021 7:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 10:01:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann

wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2021 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Tell us you dumb asshole - what is this?
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/k...eel-plant-tour
Docks and spindles of steel and water used in the
processing of the steel. "Well it wasn't that way
when I worked there. Duhhhh". It isn't as if steel
mills the entire world over aren't exactly the same.

Nice find. However, there's a problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatau_Steel#Production_facilities

"Krakatau Steel has six production plants..."Â You
can see which plant
is shown in each image by clicking on the image. For
example, the
small middle photo showing water dripping down onto a
slab of hot
rolled steel is labeled:
"A steel slab runs through the laminar cooling process
in the hot
strip mill area of the PT Krakatau Steel plant in
Cilegon, Banten
province, Indonesia, on Thursday, Feb. 21, 2013."

While you are correct that large amounts of water is
used in steel
production, most of it is re-used:
https://www.ispatguru.com/water-used-in-steel-plant-and-its-types/

"Enormous quantity of water is needed at every stage
of production.
Less than 10% of this water is actually consumed and
balance water is
usually is returned to the system."
It's like a water fountain closed system. Lots of
water moving, but
little is lost. The article goes no to describe
typical uses for
water in what I presume is a typical steel mill.

Trivia:Â I attended college in Pomona, California.Â
Nearby was the
Kaiser Steel plant in Fontana. At the time, it was
one of the largest
steel plants in the US and made much of the steel used
during WWII for
ship building:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Steel
If you look at a map of the Fontana area, you might
notice that there
are no nearby waterways capable of moving large
quantities of ore or
steel:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZxuVt581zSzZ8j1r5
The nearby Santa Ana River is dry most of the year.Â
However, if you
look at the rail map of the Fontana area:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=010cb07a67a4437f9db5e72090adb0dc

you might notice that there are quite a few nearby
railroads going E-W
and N-S.

What you and Tommy seem to have missed, or ignored, is
my mention that
I worked at the Krakatau Steel Project when it was
being built, or
maybe I said under constriction. That mammoth 700 acre
plot that they
brag about didn't exist when I was there - it was jungle.
The rolling mill existed as a uncompleted project
partially built by
the Russians and required complete rebuilding by the
British firm
hired to do mill portion of the project. Nope the only
water required
when I was there was potable water and that required to
flush the
toilets :-) Oh, I forgot, the first project built at
the Krakatau
site, after housing for management, was the golf
course. You see
Management did have their ducks in a row :-)


Well, a project does need potable water because humans
can't
work without it. But toilets can. Just about any fluid
would
do, including whatever the blue material is on commercial
airplanes.

And way back when toilets were a hole in a board over a
hole in the
ground :-)


Governments don't permit construction for a project with a
cess pit for the labor.

Girlfriend's family bought her farm before Wisconsin was a
State. Th pit moved here and there over the years but
worked, such as it was. Women started every day by hauling
a pail up out of the spring until in 1960 her father ran a
pipe with an electric pump from the spring to real indoor
plumbing which flowed out in the septic field he laid.

But now the State in it wisdom bans drinking spring water
and required her to have a well drilled. That water needs
an annual State test. The septic field is no more, now
licensed concrete tanks are pumped out by a licensed hauler.

I can see that on a private farm with enough acreage, a
septic leach field far enough from the property line should
be no problem and nobody's business.

But within a block of me, a rather exclusive private street
is served by ancient septic tanks. Some are badly maintained
and occasionally leak sewage into the creek running through
our local forest preserve. In my book, that's a problem.

Does your state _really_ prohibit drinking spring water?
This source seems to imply otherwise:
https://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/DG/DG0094.pdf

(And how would they know?)


Yes they determined that her source was not deep enough,
typical in her area. Where I grew up there were some
artesian springs coming up from limestone and that's a
different thing.-
This is the USA and indeed there is little river traffic west of the Mississippi. We use railroads to do the heavy cargo that isn't carried coastal on freighters.

In the PNW, we move millions of tons of cargo on the Willamette/Columbia/Snake Rivers. https://www.idahofb.org/Images/gallery/3879_1600.jpg Wheat is king. We also use rail. https://pcdn.columbian.com/wp-conten...SF-Railway.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/18/2021 8:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:11:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:20:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/18/2021 12:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/17/2021 10:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/17/2021 8:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 19:49:16 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 5/17/2021 7:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 10:01:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann

wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2021 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Tell us you dumb asshole - what is this?
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/k...eel-plant-tour
Docks and spindles of steel and water used in the
processing of the steel. "Well it wasn't that way
when I worked there. Duhhhh". It isn't as if steel
mills the entire world over aren't exactly the same.

Nice find. However, there's a problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatau_Steel#Production_facilities

"Krakatau Steel has six production plants..."Â You
can see which plant
is shown in each image by clicking on the image. For
example, the
small middle photo showing water dripping down onto a
slab of hot
rolled steel is labeled:
"A steel slab runs through the laminar cooling process
in the hot
strip mill area of the PT Krakatau Steel plant in
Cilegon, Banten
province, Indonesia, on Thursday, Feb. 21, 2013."

While you are correct that large amounts of water is
used in steel
production, most of it is re-used:
https://www.ispatguru.com/water-used-in-steel-plant-and-its-types/

"Enormous quantity of water is needed at every stage
of production.
Less than 10% of this water is actually consumed and
balance water is
usually is returned to the system."
It's like a water fountain closed system. Lots of
water moving, but
little is lost. The article goes no to describe
typical uses for
water in what I presume is a typical steel mill.

Trivia:Â I attended college in Pomona, California.Â
Nearby was the
Kaiser Steel plant in Fontana. At the time, it was
one of the largest
steel plants in the US and made much of the steel used
during WWII for
ship building:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Steel
If you look at a map of the Fontana area, you might
notice that there
are no nearby waterways capable of moving large
quantities of ore or
steel:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZxuVt581zSzZ8j1r5
The nearby Santa Ana River is dry most of the year.Â
However, if you
look at the rail map of the Fontana area:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=010cb07a67a4437f9db5e72090adb0dc

you might notice that there are quite a few nearby
railroads going E-W
and N-S.

What you and Tommy seem to have missed, or ignored, is
my mention that
I worked at the Krakatau Steel Project when it was
being built, or
maybe I said under constriction. That mammoth 700 acre
plot that they
brag about didn't exist when I was there - it was jungle.
The rolling mill existed as a uncompleted project
partially built by
the Russians and required complete rebuilding by the
British firm
hired to do mill portion of the project. Nope the only
water required
when I was there was potable water and that required to
flush the
toilets :-) Oh, I forgot, the first project built at
the Krakatau
site, after housing for management, was the golf
course. You see
Management did have their ducks in a row :-)


Well, a project does need potable water because humans
can't
work without it. But toilets can. Just about any fluid
would
do, including whatever the blue material is on commercial
airplanes.

And way back when toilets were a hole in a board over a
hole in the
ground :-)


Governments don't permit construction for a project with a
cess pit for the labor.

Girlfriend's family bought her farm before Wisconsin was a
State. Th pit moved here and there over the years but
worked, such as it was. Women started every day by hauling
a pail up out of the spring until in 1960 her father ran a
pipe with an electric pump from the spring to real indoor
plumbing which flowed out in the septic field he laid.

But now the State in it wisdom bans drinking spring water
and required her to have a well drilled. That water needs
an annual State test. The septic field is no more, now
licensed concrete tanks are pumped out by a licensed hauler.

I can see that on a private farm with enough acreage, a
septic leach field far enough from the property line should
be no problem and nobody's business.

But within a block of me, a rather exclusive private street
is served by ancient septic tanks. Some are badly maintained
and occasionally leak sewage into the creek running through
our local forest preserve. In my book, that's a problem.

Does your state _really_ prohibit drinking spring water?
This source seems to imply otherwise:
https://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/DG/DG0094.pdf

(And how would they know?)


Yes they determined that her source was not deep enough,
typical in her area. Where I grew up there were some
artesian springs coming up from limestone and that's a
different thing.-
This is the USA and indeed there is little river traffic west of the Mississippi. We use railroads to do the heavy cargo that isn't carried coastal on freighters.

In the PNW, we move millions of tons of cargo on the Willamette/Columbia/Snake Rivers. https://www.idahofb.org/Images/gallery/3879_1600.jpg Wheat is king. We also use rail. https://pcdn.columbian.com/wp-conten...SF-Railway.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.


Exactly. and also:

https://www.thefreightway.com/barge-...issouri-river/

https://katv.com/news/local/arkansas...-in-early-2020

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/18/2021 6:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 13:46:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/17/2021 10:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/17/2021 8:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 19:49:16 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/17/2021 7:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2021 10:01:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2021 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Tell us you dumb asshole - what is this?
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/k...eel-plant-tour
Docks and spindles of steel and water used in the processing of
the steel. "Well it wasn't that way when I worked there. Duhhhh".
It isn't as if steel mills the entire world over aren't exactly
the same.

Nice find.Â* However, there's a problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatau_Steel#Production_facilities
"Krakatau Steel has six production plants..."Â* You can see which plant
is shown in each image by clicking on the image.Â* For example, the
small middle photo showing water dripping down onto a slab of hot
rolled steel is labeled:
"A steel slab runs through the laminar cooling process in the hot
strip mill area of the PT Krakatau Steel plant in Cilegon, Banten
province, Indonesia, on Thursday, Feb. 21, 2013."

While you are correct that large amounts of water is used in steel
production, most of it is re-used:
https://www.ispatguru.com/water-used-in-steel-plant-and-its-types/
"Enormous quantity of water is needed at every stage of production.
Less than 10% of this water is actually consumed and balance water is
usually is returned to the system."
It's like a water fountain closed system.Â* Lots of water moving, but
little is lost.Â* The article goes no to describe typical uses for
water in what I presume is a typical steel mill.

Trivia:Â* I attended college in Pomona, California.Â* Nearby was the
Kaiser Steel plant in Fontana.Â* At the time, it was one of the largest
steel plants in the US and made much of the steel used during WWII for
ship building:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Steel
If you look at a map of the Fontana area, you might notice that there
are no nearby waterways capable of moving large quantities of ore or
steel:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZxuVt581zSzZ8j1r5
The nearby Santa Ana River is dry most of the year.Â* However, if you
look at the rail map of the Fontana area:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=010cb07a67a4437f9db5e72090adb0dc

you might notice that there are quite a few nearby railroads going E-W
and N-S.

What you and Tommy seem to have missed, or ignored, is my mention that
I worked at the Krakatau Steel Project when it was being built, or
maybe I said under constriction. That mammoth 700 acre plot that they
brag about didn't exist when I was there - it was jungle.
The rolling mill existed as a uncompleted project partially built by
the Russians and required complete rebuilding by the British firm
hired to do mill portion of the project. Nope the only water required
when I was there was potable water and that required to flush the
toilets :-) Oh, I forgot, the first project built at the Krakatau
site, after housing for management, was the golf course. You see
Management did have their ducks in a row :-)


Well, a project does need potable water because humans can't
work without it. But toilets can. Just about any fluid would
do, including whatever the blue material is on commercial
airplanes.

And way back when toilets were a hole in a board over a hole in the
ground :-)


Governments don't permit construction for a project with a cess pit for
the labor.

Girlfriend's family bought her farm before Wisconsin was a State. Th pit
moved here and there over the years but worked, such as it was. Women
started every day by hauling a pail up out of the spring until in 1960
her father ran a pipe with an electric pump from the spring to real
indoor plumbing which flowed out in the septic field he laid.

But now the State in it wisdom bans drinking spring water and required
her to have a well drilled. That water needs an annual State test. The
septic field is no more, now licensed concrete tanks are pumped out by a
licensed hauler.

I can see that on a private farm with enough acreage, a septic leach
field far enough from the property line should be no problem and
nobody's business.

But within a block of me, a rather exclusive private street is served by
ancient septic tanks. Some are badly maintained and occasionally leak
sewage into the creek running through our local forest preserve. In my
book, that's a problem.

Does your state _really_ prohibit drinking spring water? This source
seems to imply otherwise: https://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/DG/DG0094.pdf

(And how would they know?)

But the problem, as you describe it, isn't that septic tank outflow
contaminates the stream it is that poorly maintained septic systems
contaminate the stream.

I might comment that in the housing development I live in there are
certainly more than 100 houses (I never counted them) and that all
have septic tank sewage systems and no evidence whatsoever of
overflow.

I'm sure septic tanks and leach fields can operate properly. I wouldn't
be surprised to learn that almost all of them do. I'm just pointing out
that some do not, and the detriments are externalities for the owners.
They're imposed on others.

The properties I'm talking about are, I'm sure, quite expensive. They
could afford to fix the problem. But it seems enforcement isn't a high
priority.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 18 May 2021 20:02:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

sms wrote:
On 5/18/2021 8:43 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:

snip

It really puts a crimp in your plans for a libertarian utopia when you
start thinking about how the (sub)average human would react to a society
without rules.

But what about your freedoms?!



I’m Canadian. That whole “Live free or die!” stuff mainly exists south of
the 49th parallel.

"Live free or die" is the official motto of the U.S. state of New
Hampshire, adopted by the state in 1945.

I grew up in New Hampshire and I can assure you that there were plenty
of curbs on "freedom". Stores, for example, were not allowed to be
open on Sunday unless they sold milk or medicine.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 20:02:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

sms wrote:
On 5/18/2021 8:43 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:

snip

It really puts a crimp in your plans for a libertarian utopia when you
start thinking about how the (sub)average human would react to a society
without rules.

But what about your freedoms?!



I’m Canadian. That whole “Live free or die!” stuff mainly exists south of
the 49th parallel.

"Live free or die" is the official motto of the U.S. state of New
Hampshire, adopted by the state in 1945.

I grew up in New Hampshire and I can assure you that there were plenty
of curbs on "freedom". Stores, for example, were not allowed to be
open on Sunday unless they sold milk or medicine.

And they didn’t all just spontaneously die? Weird...

On Tue, 18 May 2021 07:19:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/17/2021 9:07 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

snip
As you rely on being able to stop on the line and you need to take into
account that passenger are allowed to walk inside the train, you cannot
bank a 200mph line like a roller-coaster.

In Germany, we allow a maximum bank of 160mm (i.e. bank angle = inv sin
(160/1435) ) and a maximum lateral acceleration of 0.85 m/s, resulting
in a minimum radius of just over 4000m at 300 kph.
Since the HSR systems are usually completely separate from freight or
lower-speed trains, the countries building them certainly had the
opportunity to go to a wider gauge than what they were using for their
other railways. But none did. There was no upside in doing so. Russia
uses a wider gauge for both regular rail and HSR. The turn radii
minimums are longer for HSR, but that would be the case regardless of
the gauge. New TGV construction is 7000m, older construction is 4000m,
same as in Germany.

Tom really needs to embark on a world tour to explain to all these
countries why they need to rebuild all their HSR lines to a wider gauge.
I have been waiting for you to tell us what your training is in and what experience you've had at anything other than Marxism.

There you go Tommy, using then there big words. But tell us Tommy just
what is "Marxism"? Can you explain it? Or is it just another word that
you've learned to spell but can't explain?
--
Cheers,

John B.