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#81
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 16, 11:51 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I didn't see them" excuse. Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop, bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store, department store, library, community centre or job site. At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten pix with a disposable camera. Bike paths divert customers away from commerce. cheers, Tom Why you generalize? Bike paths take ME to a shopping area. The one and only. Then I've got some back roads that take me to the supermarket. The rest is nobody's land. |
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#82
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 17, 10:39 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Nov 17, 3:48 am, Peter Clinch wrote: Tom Keats wrote: Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop, bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store, department store, library, community centre or job site. At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten pix with a disposable camera. Bike paths divert customers away from commerce. That's implementation dependent. There's no particular problem doing one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example. So this highlights not a basic problem with bike paths, but with bike paths that aren't implemented by people who understand their use. No shortage of those around here either, but it isn't a fundamental failing that is 100% bound to afflict all examples. In America, I'd guess that basic problem afflicts well over 90% of bike paths. Almost all are linear parks with negligible transportation benefit, and nothing will change that. Within thirty miles of my house, I know of only one multi-use (or "bike") path that is mostly used as a transportation link. It's only a quarter mile long, and gets cyclists and peds through a dead end for cars, and into the village center. Contrast that with the much- trumpeted rail-trail, just completed, that runs through over 100 miles of corn fields, paralleling beautiful, peaceful country roads! Except for rare exceptions, you can't fit many utilitarian bike paths into our urban or suburban landscape. The land is already taken up. And the odds will always be minuscule that any given cyclist will find a bike path from his home to any particular destination. Yes, I know a dozen bike path fans will mentally object, saying "Well, I ride my bike path to XYZ!" But unless you're a statistical miracle, almost all the practical places to which you want to ride are off the bike path, and so is your home. And it's always going to be that way. - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text - We do have some bike paths that go largely under-utilized because of the intersections. They are a problem. Well they also run under the train, which makes it more simply to just ride the train. |
#83
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats wrote:
Tom Sherman writes: Dane Buson wrote: In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman wrote: Dane Buson wrote: I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a much politer interblag. Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats? Well, certainly not Tom. I am relieved to have my expectation confirmed. /You're/ relieved!? I just dodged a punch in the face! ( Hi, Dane :-) :-) ) Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around the newsgroups some. -- Dane Buson - C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique. -- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341] |
#84
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Would you favor a bike bailout?
On Nov 17, 5:46 pm, Dane Buson wrote:
I just dodged a punch in the face! ( Hi, Dane :-) :-) ) Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around the newsgroups some. -- Dane Buson - C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique. -- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341]- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good, welcome back, so long as you don't come on the side of Evil... (Evil is defined here as those who are happy with the status quo, and don't want any changes) Anyway this is a very important question to fight evil and lies out there... Would you favor a bike bailout? Yeah you know, there is a good-old-fashioned American company (remember the slogan "Made with Pride in the USA"?) that made recumbents, and still makes bike trailers. Its name is Burley, which not only doesn't use cheap labor, but also has a cooperative of free workers without a CEO making big bucks. Well, you get the point which is neither Chinese labor nor unionized American workers making SUVs... http://www.bicycleman.com/recumbents/burley/burley.htm Their recumbents were discontinued in 2006, and are supposed to come back. But hey, it ain't easy having competition from cheap labor. "Sun" of Taiwan does produce nice recumbents, but Taiwanese workers enjoy benefits unheard of in America, like universal healthcare, so I guess they are fair competion. Anyway, President Obama, and honorable members of Congress who hold the interests of lobbyists in such a high esteem, as well as the American people who helped Obama become #1, as well as the patriots who voted for McCain out of hate for Obama, why don't you bail out Burley of America, or whatever its name is? poll... http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487295 |
#85
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
Dane Buson wrote:
In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats wrote: Tom Sherman writes: Dane Buson wrote: In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman wrote: Dane Buson wrote: I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a much politer interblag. Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats? Well, certainly not Tom. I am relieved to have my expectation confirmed. /You're/ relieved!? I just dodged a punch in the face! ( Hi, Dane :-) :-) ) Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around the newsgroups some. PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life! -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate. |
#86
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I am convinced bicycling is safe
Frank Krygowski wrote:
[...] Except for rare exceptions, you can't fit many utilitarian bike paths into our urban or suburban landscape. The land is already taken up. And the odds will always be minuscule that any given cyclist will find a bike path from his home to any particular destination.[...] The main exception where there should be a bicycle/pedestrian path area bridges on controlled access highways, since there is often not another bridge nearby. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate. |
#87
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
KingOfTheApes wrote:
Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you! Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again. I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. Think how cycle-aware the average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with /less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger). As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the typical motorist for cyclists. That awareness does not come about by removing cyclists from the roads. The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and share the road with them as equals. In much the same way that users of Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash them like bugs. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#88
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
"KingOfTheApes" wrote in message ... [...] Well, I knew the UK was a smarter place, not only because they have tamed traffic to a higher degree, but also because they don't have a Republican party. The UK is one of the most ****ed up places on earth. Only France is more ****ed up. The last good prime minister they had was Margaret Thatcher who at least had sense enough to know how to kick Argentine butt. I think the Brits are still dumb enough to revere the late Winston Churchill when all he ever did was preside over the demise of the British Empire. Great Britain is no longer Great. It has now become a tiny kingdom by the sea. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#89
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... KingOfTheApes wrote: Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you! Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again. I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. Think how cycle-aware the average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with /less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger). As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the typical motorist for cyclists. That awareness does not come about by removing cyclists from the roads. The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and share the road with them as equals. In much the same way that users of Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash them like bugs. Pete. Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is as always out to lunch when it come to bicycle safety. It is a wonder he has not been run over and killed by now. He is an idiot and you listen to anything he has to say at your peril. For God's sakes, just look at his signature above and you will know everything you will ever have to know about him. He has absolutely got the worst signature of anyone on Usenet. Why can't he get a modest and humble signature like mine! Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#90
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
"KingOfTheApes" wrote in message ... [...] I don't know if Canada is a jungle, but here it is. And probably true for most of the South. Well, Los Angeles is kind of civilized, but then again it is a Blue state, which happens to have a Republican governor who stands for the Red issues. You are a slubbering, barefoot, bearded lewdster. You quackling, ill-shapen, nonviable eel-eater. You are a nitrifying, middling, cringing hagfish. You fuddling, ill-bred, elf-skinned bottom feeder. You dizzying, sneaking, raffish pavement princess. You are an obfuscating, tempest-swept, suborbital hog. You are a perambulating, harassed, hillbilly arsewipe. You sprouting, ****-smelling, crack-headed fat-mouth. You are a scabbing, salt-cured, teapot-shaped gnat. You are less than a hopping, snuffly, postmenopausal xylophage. You twittering, cacodaemonic, stock-still fibber. You spitting, shivering, trembling ribagitationist. You are an ulcerating, emancipated, stereophonic goldfish. You leg-lifting, tedious, fool-born harridan. You rotating, lacteal, psychotic heroin addict. You sniveling, knotted, crusty harridan. You are an infecting, sick-minded, phlegmy hippopotamus. You are less than a perambulating, tuberculoid, misanthropical xylophone player. You are less than a staring, self-contradictory, one-eyed heckler. You are a flouncing, snoring, smoldering greaseball. You are an idolatrising, worrying, small-time kleptomaniac. You are a bewildering, two-way, la-di-da lackey. You drolling, fist-****ed, squeaky kidney. You are a belaboring, baying, dried-out chippy chaser. You spangling, self-winding, run-down ****blister. ****ing Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota PS. You are an infecting, sick-minded, phlegmy hippopotamus. |
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