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Riding wheel with broken spokes, rebuilding same
Last weekend I was out on a 200K ride which ended when two spokes broke in the
rear wheel. This was a new experience for me. The wheel is a machine built wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. I've never built my own wheels. Two weeks earlier I had replaced a broken spoke on the same wheel and had my first experience with wheel truing. It's really possible I compounded whatever problems the wheel had at this time. Questions: I felt that continuing to ride would result in more broken spokes and possible rim damage. Is that perception true? There was about 15 miles to go. This seems to be an excellent time to start in on learning to build wheels. Should I replace all the spokes in this wheel or just the broken ones? My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? Yes, I have Jobst's book and Sheldon's page at hand. |
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#2
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Michael Rasmussen wrote:
Last weekend I was out on a 200K ride which ended when two spokes broke in the rear wheel. This was a new experience for me. The wheel is a machine built wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. I've never built my own wheels. Two weeks earlier I had replaced a broken spoke on the same wheel and had my first experience with wheel truing. It's really possible I compounded whatever problems the wheel had at this time. Questions: I felt that continuing to ride would result in more broken spokes and possible rim damage. Is that perception true? There was about 15 miles to go. Perhaps. If two spokes broke, there's probably more that are going to go. The remaining spokes have experienced similar load cycles to the ones that broke, which probably led to fatigue and failure. They might even have broken on the remainder of your ride. This seems to be an excellent time to start in on learning to build wheels. Should I replace all the spokes in this wheel or just the broken ones? After about 1000 miles, I'd spend $10-20 and replace them all. At least replace all the ones on the side where two have already broken (non-drive side, right?). Besides, old spokes are useful to pick mud and dog excrement out of sneakers, boots, and MTB shoe lugs. My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? IME, that's the best way to proceed. An experienced wheel builder might be able to replace a few spokes and then true and tension the wheel. But as a newbie, it's easier to build up tension gradually. Yes, I have Jobst's book and Sheldon's page at hand. Read, study, and good luck! Pat |
#3
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Michael Rasmussen wrote:
Last weekend I was out on a 200K ride which ended when two spokes broke in the rear wheel. This was a new experience for me. The wheel is a machine built wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. I've never built my own wheels. Two weeks earlier I had replaced a broken spoke on the same wheel and had my first experience with wheel truing. It's really possible I compounded whatever problems the wheel had at this time. Questions: I felt that continuing to ride would result in more broken spokes and possible rim damage. Is that perception true? There was about 15 miles to go. possible, but more likely it's ok. This seems to be an excellent time to start in on learning to build wheels. Should I replace all the spokes in this wheel or just the broken ones? probably all. My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? means threading spokes through each other - much more complicated than starting over, especially is you're replacing them all. Yes, I have Jobst's book and Sheldon's page at hand. check the spoke head for the brand you have now. [that's the usual place manufacturers identify their product.] chances are, they're cheap no-name. if you rebuild, make sure you only use a good brand. all spokes are not created equal. also, try not to bend the spoke elbow on building - it needs to retain an angle of about 95 degrees, the angle it settles to when built. |
#4
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"Michael Rasmussen" wrote in message
... Last weekend I was out on a 200K ride which ended when two spokes broke in the rear wheel. This was a new experience for me. The wheel is a machine built wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. I've never built my own wheels. Two weeks earlier I had replaced a broken spoke on the same wheel and had my first experience with wheel truing. It's really possible I compounded whatever problems the wheel had at this time. Questions: I felt that continuing to ride would result in more broken spokes and possible rim damage. Is that perception true? There was about 15 miles to go. This seems to be an excellent time to start in on learning to build wheels. Should I replace all the spokes in this wheel or just the broken ones? My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? Yes, I have Jobst's book and Sheldon's page at hand. It's possible you got a bad batch of spokes, that's not very many miles to be breaking so many. If it were my wheel, I'd replace just the broken ones (cheap, lazy). Are they breaking at the elbows? Are they all breaking in the same spot? Bad spoke line? I've had very good luck with several set of machine-made wheels, even low cost ones. When I get such wheels I always stress relieve and bring up the tension on them, per Jobst's book. I have put many thousands of miles on wheels like this with my 235 lb body weight, and broken spokes almost never happen (maybe 1 every 2-3 years @ 5K miles/yr). |
#5
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The wheel is a machine built
wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. Hmm, breaking spokes at less than 1000 miles is not good. I assume it's a rear wheel and drive side spokes. What kind of rim and what kind of spokes (and how many)? Did the spokes seem overly loose or tight? Machine built wheels are usually under tensioned. I felt that continuing to ride would result in more broken spokes and possible rim damage. Is that perception true? There was about 15 miles to go. With two broken spokes, you're lucky you were able to ride the wheel. It's usually possible to adjust the remaining spokes to get the wheel true enough to ride home. If the tension was high, and the rim was way out of true, the rim may have taken a set. If the rim is no longer round and planar, it may not be possible to get even spoke tension when the wheel is trued. My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? Sounds like you had some combination of poor build quality and cheap spokes. If the rim is of decent quality, I'd replace all the spokes with DT brand. Replace them one at a time so it will be easier to maintain the same spoke/hub orientation. Follow the steps in The Book for oiling, spoke line correcting, tensioning, and truing. Then stress relieve. Art Harris |
#6
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You usually DO NOT need to replace all the spokes.
You haven't read all of Jobst's book if you're asking the question. You need 2 things. 1. a tight wheel. The tighter the stronger, unless too tight in which case it'll warp. 2. To stress relieve the spokes. This is very important to prevent breakages. I've read ALL of Jobst's book in my time and do only one thing different to him. How I stress relieve. Maybe my hands aren't strong enough but I still broke some when doing as he advocates. I now stress relieve with something metal, or by putting the weight of my hell on each spoke. I almost never break them now and I weigh 200 and tour with up to 32lb weight. |
#7
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 06:54:03 -0800, Michael Rasmussen
wrote: My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? Great idea. |
#8
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Michael Rasmussen Wrote: Last weekend I was out on a 200K ride which ended when two spokes broke in the rear wheel. This was a new experience for me. The wheel is a machine built wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. I've never built my own wheels. Two weeks earlier I had replaced a broken spoke on the same wheel and had my first experience with wheel truing. It's really possible I compounded whatever problems the wheel had at this time. Questions: I felt that continuing to ride would result in more broken spokes and possible rim damage. Is that perception true? There was about 15 miles to go. This seems to be an excellent time to start in on learning to build wheels. Should I replace all the spokes in this wheel or just the broken ones? My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up. Is there any problems with that idea? Yes, I have Jobst's book and Sheldon's page at hand. If they are good quality hubs and rims, I would just start with all new spokes and nipples. It is much easier and faster to lace a wheel in the 4 segments as shown in the book and Sheldon's pages than to replace one spoke at a time. You will be able to see the marks on the hub to know how the wheel was previously laced. DT, Sapim, and Wheelsmith are good quality. Sapim doesn't put their logo or lettering on the head, but they imprint it on the "outside" of the spoke shaft past the elbow. You can't make up for the fatigue that has already happened in the remaining spokes. Tension balance and spoke alignment are important to make the wheel have it's longest life. -- daveornee |
#9
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Michael Rasmussen wrote:
Last weekend I was out on a 200K ride which ended when two spokes broke in the rear wheel. This was a new experience for me. The wheel is a machine built wheel that I picked up to use as a spare. It has less than 1000 miles on it. -snip- This seems to be an excellent time to start in on learning to build wheels. Should I replace all the spokes in this wheel or just the broken ones? My intent is to loosen all the spokes and treat the build process as if I had just completed lacing the wheel up -snip- Yes, drop the tension, lube the threads and nipple faces and do it over properly. There aren't 'bad spokes' generally but there are plenty of sloppy builds. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#10
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"Art Harris" wrote:
With two broken spokes, you're lucky you were able to ride the wheel. I once finished a late night lap in a 24 hour race with SIX broken drive side spokes. The course was very rocky, and somewhere along the line I had shifted the chain into the spokes, and scored them badly, after which point they started failing rapid fire. Granted, I did have to stop and release the rear brake altogether (making for some memorable downhills), and it didn't feel like it had another 100 yards in it when I finished the lap... but it got me there. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame |
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