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#51
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ARBR has gone downhill
"Rocketman" wrote in message news:lbRBb.359222$275.1178300@attbi_s53... "skip" wrote in message ... "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:04:36 -0600, "skip" wrote: But then only two hours earlier Rocketman's contribution toward making arbr a vital resource, increase S/N ratio, and to better our state is reflected in this exchange: Republicans want to starve kids, kick old people out on the street, make poor people have to eat dog food to survive, poison the air, land and water and kill millions of American kids with your imperialist wars. Well, hell, I thought you were only complaining about *contentious* off-topic stuff ;-) Guy === ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk I'm not complaining, mind you (having contributed my share), only noting the traces of *irony* in all of this. And this is helping in what way, other than as a self-serving display of tattle-tailing? Ah, that's what I thought. Maybe next time you can contribute something of value to our group. -Rocketman Rocketman I'm sorry you're unhappy about being exposed in a pot kettle black deal, but the hypocrisy and irony of all this was so egregious I couldn't stop myself from pointing it out to those who seemingly have such a difficult time seeing it. If you're going to continue posting in such an extreme political vein perhaps you should consider backing off the "it's all Dolan's fault" ragging you've been joining in on lately. Just a suggestion. skip |
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#52
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ARBR has gone downhill
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#53
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ARBR has gone downhill
"Rocketman" wrote in message news:f9MBb.79779$_M.393835@attbi_s54...
[...] We're wise to Ed Dolan now. He knows he's not wanted, and inhabits most of our killfiles permanently. I've stopped responding to him (even by proxy), and will try my very best not to add to OT threads. There are about a dozen who have so far indicated via their posts that they do not much like what I have to say in my humble messages. Let's see, that probably leaves at least a few thousand who have no objection and there may well be many hundreds who do enjoy my posts. So why should I pay any attention to Rocketman and his ilk. Rocketman is one of those poor benighted souls who does not like to be crossed, let alone disagreed with. He will be leaving us shortly as he must have everything his own way. He is a control freak. Apparently many of the old regulars are going over to something called bicycles racing recreation. There is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. But I wish them all god speed and the best of good posting where they can all bond with one another without any interference from the likes of me. In the meantime the rest of us will soldier on with our somewhat contentious posting in the real world of ARBR. Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
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ARBR has gone downhill
Mikael Seierup wrote:
: Oddly enough when we had 20 overlapping OT threads in a week because of 9-11 : one almost got crucified for suggesting people stick to the existing threads : or taking it somewhere else. I suppose theres OT and OT. ;-/ Ouch. Too bad I wasn't there ;p This is news, where the point IMO is that you have a fairly strict separation into topical groups. You can always set the follow-ups to the appropriate group and continue your fight there. Heck, maybe Ed and folks should take it to something like alt.usenet.free-speech? It's different on a forum that's made for the community, not a topic. Even there I learned that discussing political stuff (like the repercussions of 9-11) is a good way to get a flame war with Americans. Europe and the US come from so different angles, we start as friends and end up finding how different we are as people when it comes to politics. That's the second reason I steer clear of heavily political OT. It is obviously the same for republicans vs. democrats, but a liberals vs. conservatives fight is largely a US internal matter, and one that is not of much interest to us Europeans. Wonder how this group is going to turn out when we have some Arabs or Malaysians posting here? -- Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ |
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ARBR has gone downhill
Best post I've seen in a long time...
-- Bryan J. Ball Publisher/Editor 'BentRider Online Magazine www.bentrideronline.com |
#56
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ARBR has gone downhill
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message om... Apparently many of the old regulars are going over to something called bicycles racing recreation. There is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. But I wish them all god speed and the best of good posting where they can all bond with one another without any interference from the likes of me. In the meantime the rest of us will soldier on with our somewhat contentious posting in the real world of ARBR. The suggested migration of a.r.b.r. regulars to rec.bicycle.racing is attempted humor by Rocketman. Recumbent riders would not be welcomed in this newsgroup known for its contentiousness that is generally centered around bike racing matters, who is taking what drugs, personal sexuality, and other personal characteristics of the posters. Those guys have all the political sense of a Fabrizo Mazzoleni. But they would surely unite to heap abuse on a recumbent cyclist who had the misfortune of accidentally wandering into the newsgroup. skip |
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ARBR has gone downhill
skip wrote:
: The suggested migration of a.r.b.r. regulars to rec.bicycle.racing is : attempted humor by Rocketman. Recumbent riders would not be welcomed in : this newsgroup known for its contentiousness that is generally centered : around bike racing matters, who is taking what drugs, personal sexuality, : and other personal characteristics of the posters. Those guys have all the : political sense of a Fabrizo Mazzoleni. But they would surely unite to heap : abuse on a recumbent cyclist who had the misfortune of accidentally : wandering into the newsgroup. Huh, haven't noticed. I even mentioned bents explicitly sometimes. The group sure has some obnoxious posters (at least part of the time) but there's also some very likable folks. -- Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ |
#58
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ARBR has gone downhill
Edward Dolan wrote:
Yes, I surely do appreciate what you say about it taking two to tango. But you lose me on the lowest instincts comment. I don't really see it that way. Everything is and should be grist for the mill. Of course it was irony with the inevitable grain of truth in it. I'm convinced we can't resolve problems without being sincere and seeing our own responsibility. You're right, you're not the only one who is enjoying these OT-Threads, everyone who responds and takes part is responsible for their growing, so I see no reason to blame only you for it. It's kind of an interaction, not your fault alone. [...] I am part of that certain amount of OT. It should never exceed a critical mass as you say and normally it doesn't. What is going on right now is a bit of housekeeping with me as it's object. All of this should be on maybe just a couple of OT threads, but threads multiply like snakes with no rhyme nor reason to them. Yes, that's true, OT threads and Usenet in general are hard to predict and not to control, that's why every poster should be very careful about his writing. Sometimes it does even help to think before posting. ;-) Nastiness is mostly in the mind of the reader and what passes for good humor is mostly just God awful boring! It's true that beauty often lies in the eye of the beholder, but that's _no_ excuse for borderless insulting or flaming. As a (retired) librarian you surely know that it's in the first line the author who is responsible for his text, not the reader. Please keep this in mind when using the term "idiot" as a compliment. ;-) But since I am the object of the discussion, what would you have me do. Just disappear? I'm not here to tell you what to do, but as you're asking me, I will give you my opinion and I'm sure you will take it as what it is. I have for you the same advices as for anyone else coming to this group: 1. Do not post (extended) off topic stuff (without general acceptance) 2. Do not respond to OT 3. If there is someone or something you dislike, just ignore 4. If you want to discuss a subject which is OT at the current group, take it to an appropriate group, preferably by setting a follow up to the new group. That means you have to fill in the name of the new group in the line for the follow up and the answer will appear only in the new group. Sometimes it is more handsome to do this via cross posting, in order to give the regulars of the next group as much context as possible. a.r.b.r. ---- (a.r.b.r.) (alt.politics.bush) ---- alt.politics.bush Setting a follow up will invite all those to the next group who are really interested in this discussion. I don't know if this is possible via Google groups, but if not, you can always start a new thread in the appropriate group and give a pointer in the old one. So I do not think you should leave or disappear, but I suggest to take the major part of your OT-stuff to an appropriate group and to concentrate on discussions about recumbents in this group. Nobody will object to a few ramblings now and then, but you shouldn't forget the main purpose of this group. I am convinced that no one can control a newsgroup. I believe if you would care to take a look at my posting in toto to this newsgroup you would find that I am quite in the mainstream. I am offending no more so than anyone else. I do not go into long political rants unless that is what I am confronted with. I do not bring up political subjects willy-nilly. And I carefully gauge the tone of my response to what I have received. It is all tit for tat. I see you and your OT-counterparts trapped in a very muddled "eye-for-eye"-game, maybe already blinded by hatred for the obvious. Every time you are responding to one of your opponents, you give him an excellent opportunity to expose his opinions and to depreciate your own and vice versa ad infinitum. That's a game nobody can win and victims in this case are mainly innocent people who came to a.r.b.r. seeking information and discussions about recumbents. You can't steal away from this responsibility. My so called "excessive OT posting" is in response to the gang-up that is going on here. I have to respond to the many whereas those who are opposed to me do so one by one, and on many different threads. So of course it looks like I am being excessive. Rereading my post you will see that I didn't blame only you for OT-posting. What's special with you is your _complete_ dedication and concentration on OT, that's the main difference between you and e.g. Tom Sherman, who contributes regularly to the topic of this group. I guess that's why he seems to be more accepted and tolerated than you. This doesn't excuse his own aberrations to political OT, but at least he seems to remember sometimes what this group is about. Where is your sense of fair play? I will explain it to you. Let's go back to my example about golf and football: Imagine there is a group of people happily playing football. While playing, some of them realize they actually prefer playing golf. As long as they are forming their decision they are allowed to stay on the field, but when they start seriously to play and more and more members of the football-team begin to complain about their behavior, they are supposed to leave the place. It's easy, look around, there are a lot of fields out there and everyone will find a place suited for his needs and his interests, just a few clicks of your fingers away. That's fair play for me. But what are you OT-posters doing? You know you're not at the right place, but you point with your fingers at each other crying: "But it was him who started, not me! And after all, you can see I'm playing golf, so why don't you get out of my way?" That's no fair play for me, it's a deliberate nuisance. [...] Mr. Sherman should be helping me fight this battle but like all liberals he is out to lunch when you need him the most. I don't know if this will help you, but I would him fundamentally tell the same as you, you're both the other side of the same medal. ;-) No, you are completely overstating things now. My manners and those others of us on OT are up to the mark. We are all on the same wave length and are enjoying one another's company. We are not going to take over ARBR and we are not going to run it into the ground either. ARBR is not a house of cards. It is as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar. There will always be newbies wanting to know something about recumbents and there will always be regulars who will delight in informing them and advising them. The same old subjects will go on forever. Nothing will ever change. And there will always be that 10% OT. It is all perfectly normal and natural. That's glorious euphemism for me. Obviously we are not reading the same group, I can remember a lot of very unhappy campers and their bitter complaints here. Besides, everything changes all the time, steadily. Look back only ten years, there was no recumbent newsgroup. Nobody knows what's going on in ten or even only five years. The world of recumbency is growing fast, new models every year, they become more and more affordable and trikes are gaining rapidly. One should think there are subjects enough to discuss without the need for digressing to political themes. I do think there are way too many control freaks here on ARBR. Maybe many of you would be happier in a chat room situation. It would be a much smaller group and you would all know one another and be friends. I prefer the wild wild world of Usenet where you can never predict what someone is going to say to you. Life does not get any better than that! In my opinion a.r.b.r. plays an important role in the world of recumbents. I appreciate the occasion to get first hand information without any restrictions, be it filters, moderation, censorship or whatever. Of course, most of us are reading it in their spare time, but there are folks who do serious work, think of Bryan Ball or Bob Bryant, you will find manufacturers and dealers here, engaged home-builders too, and many of us can profit from their efforts. So I don't think it's a good idea to sabotage their work and drive them away by abusing this group as a forum for personal campaigns. And no, I don't think you're the only one, but I hope you are reasonable enough to give it a thought. Kurt |
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ARBR has gone downhill
wrote in message ... skip wrote: : The suggested migration of a.r.b.r. regulars to rec.bicycle.racing is : attempted humor by Rocketman. Recumbent riders would not be welcomed in : this newsgroup known for its contentiousness that is generally centered : around bike racing matters, who is taking what drugs, personal sexuality, : and other personal characteristics of the posters. Those guys have all the : political sense of a Fabrizo Mazzoleni. But they would surely unite to heap : abuse on a recumbent cyclist who had the misfortune of accidentally : wandering into the newsgroup. Huh, haven't noticed. I even mentioned bents explicitly sometimes. The group sure has some obnoxious posters (at least part of the time) but there's also some very likable folks. -- Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ Really? Maybe things have changed. Or maybe it's your personal demeanor - you do seem to get along with most everyone and look for the best in people. Could you point me to one of your good experiences with a bent post there? My reference point is Jeff Potter's attempts to interest them in HPV racing awhile back. Admittedly it has been some time since I visited that group. skip |
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ARBR has gone downhill
skip wrote:
: Really? Maybe things have changed. Or maybe it's your personal demeanor - : you do seem to get along with most everyone and look for the best in people. : Could you point me to one of your good experiences with a bent post there? : My reference point is Jeff Potter's attempts to interest them in HPV racing : awhile back. Admittedly it has been some time since I visited that group. Try http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...icycles.racing alias http://tinyurl.com/ysvj I don't think they flamed me once. I also notice some very familiar posters from here. But maybe it's the bent topic that attracts them :-) -- Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ |
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