New panniers, what to choose?

I had some nice Wiggle Altura ones, which combined a roll-top sealing
mechanism with a storm-flap that closed down over it.

It seems better than the Ortlieb mechanisms, which just have a roll-top.
Are the Ortlieb Bike Packer models (which do have he flap, but no roll
mechanism to seal them) as waterproof?

Daniele

D.M. Procida wrote:
I had some nice Wiggle Altura ones, which combined a roll-top sealing
mechanism with a storm-flap that closed down over it.

It seems better than the Ortlieb mechanisms, which just have a roll-top.

But why have a "storm flap" over something that's stormproof to
start with? It's just extra faff opening and closing them, plus
extra weight, for no real gain. I don't see that as "better".

Are the Ortlieb Bike Packer models (which do have he flap, but no roll
mechanism to seal them) as waterproof?

This depends on how you want to define "waterproof". If you ride
through a ford and it Goes A Bit Wrong to the extent that your
panniers are completely submerged then the Bike Packers won't be
much use at all. If it's mere rain then if you've closed them up
properly then the contents will be dry.

I use Orts, both roll-tops and flip-tops, and they both work.
Where Ortlieb score over other brands is the ease of use of the
rack fixings, and where they're at /least/ as good as anything else
is the quality of construction. They're not cheap but IMHO you get
what you pay for and they're my first choice for panniers.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch wrote:

D.M. Procida wrote:
I had some nice Wiggle Altura ones, which combined a roll-top sealing
mechanism with a storm-flap that closed down over it.

It seems better than the Ortlieb mechanisms, which just have a roll-top.

But why have a "storm flap" over something that's stormproof to
start with? It's just extra faff opening and closing them, plus
extra weight, for no real gain. I don't see that as "better".

The Ortlieb mechanism seems to unravel itself unless firmly strapped
down, or with sufficient contents in the bag to press against.

In practice, it seems rather less of a fuss to manage than my
colleague's Ortlieb mechanism.

Are the Ortlieb Bike Packer models (which do have he flap, but no roll
mechanism to seal them) as waterproof?

This depends on how you want to define "waterproof". If you ride
through a ford and it Goes A Bit Wrong to the extent that your
panniers are completely submerged then the Bike Packers won't be
much use at all. If it's mere rain then if you've closed them up
properly then the contents will be dry.

Something in between. Not just a bit of rain, but several hours' riding
through very heavy rain.

Daniele

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010, D.M. Procida wrote:
Peter Clinch wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:

Are the Ortlieb Bike Packer models (which do have he flap, but
no roll mechanism to seal them) as waterproof?

This depends on how you want to define "waterproof". If you ride
through a ford and it Goes A Bit Wrong to the extent that your
panniers are completely submerged then the Bike Packers won't be
much use at all. If it's mere rain then if you've closed them up
properly then the contents will be dry.

Something in between. Not just a bit of rain, but several hours'
riding through very heavy rain.

My Ortlieb bike-packers have never let water in, despite having
occasionally had several hours riding through very heavy rain, once or
twice riding an upright through floods and fords deeper than the hubs,
and once riding a recumbent at high speed through a flood deeper than
the seat (which is probably as close as you can get to submerging them
without actually doing so - certainly I was as wet as had I been
submerged).

Actually, probably more true to say riding a recumbent into a flood at
high speed. I dropped to a low speed pretty quickly as the drag from
water took hold. The bottom of the panniers would have been below
water level, there was lots of water being thrown around. I probably
had the inner draw-string pulled tight, but I tend to only do that if
it is raining hard and I'll be out for a long time.

For daily use, where I'm returning to a house and change of clothes, I
wouldn't swap the bike-packers for anything I can imagine. For long
touring use, where my comfort for days on end depends upon everything
staying really dry, if the budget stretched to it I might go for
roll-tops for the extra reassurance that if I accidently drop the bike
in a river, my gear will stay dry. In practice, I couldn't justify
the spend for a different set of panniers for touring, so I'd use the
bike-packers.

regards, Ian SMith
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D.M. Procida wrote:

The Ortlieb mechanism seems to unravel itself unless firmly strapped
down, or with sufficient contents in the bag to press against.

Speaking from years of experience of using it on their panniers and
paddling dry-bags, no it doesn't. It's a completely standard seal
mech for dry-bags for general outdoor use manufactured by a huge
number of companies (just in my own Toy Cupboard, Palm, Seal Line,
Exped, Alpkit as well as Ortlieb), it's well provenb and it works
very well.

Something in between. Not just a bit of rain, but several hours' riding
through very heavy rain.

Rain, /any/ rain, is not going to get in to an Ortlieb pannier as
long as it's been done up properly and hasn't had a hole made in it
somewhere. That goes for "Packers" as well as rollers.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Oct 12, 10:26*pm, Peter Clinch wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:
The Ortlieb *mechanism seems to unravel itself unless firmly strapped
down, or with sufficient contents in the bag to press against.

Speaking from years of experience of using it on their panniers and
paddling dry-bags, no it doesn't. *It's a completely standard seal
mech for dry-bags for general outdoor use manufactured by a huge
number of companies (just in my own Toy Cupboard, Palm, Seal Line,
Exped, Alpkit as well as Ortlieb), it's well provenb and it works
very well.

Something in between. Not just a bit of rain, but several hours' riding
through very heavy rain.

Rain, /any/ rain, is not going to get in to an Ortlieb pannier as
long as it's been done up properly and hasn't had a hole made in it
somewhere. *That goes for "Packers" as well as rollers.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch * * * * * * * * * *Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 * Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 * * * * * * *Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net * *http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Glad to hear this. I'm fed up with half-baked panniers, and I've just
bought a pair of "Classic Back-rollers" on the Bike24 website at a
very good price (once you've decided to pay ortlieb prices). But you
have to put up with a Bike24 logo on them - me, I'm not proud.

In message , Peter Clinch
writes
D.M. Procida wrote:
Are the Ortlieb Bike Packer models (which do have he flap, but no roll
mechanism to seal them) as waterproof?

This depends on how you want to define "waterproof". If you ride
through a ford and it Goes A Bit Wrong to the extent that your panniers
are completely submerged then the Bike Packers won't be much use at
all. If it's mere rain then if you've closed them up properly then the
contents will be dry.

I use Orts, both roll-tops and flip-tops, and they both work. Where
Ortlieb score over other brands is the ease of use of the rack fixings,
and where they're at /least/ as good as anything else is the quality of
construction. They're not cheap but IMHO you get what you pay for and
they're my first choice for panniers.

I agree, esp re the rack fixings, the system is so easy to use anything
else seems a bit clunky now. Re the cost, I expect to use my panniers
for many years (my Super C's are over 20 years old now, though a bit
knackered) in that sort of time span the extra cost doesn't seem
significant.

We've got one pair of Ortliebs at the moment - the city rollers which
are used on the daughters Islabike rack, and also the wife uses them
sometimes on her bike (small for a rear panniers, but it's just out on
day rides)

As you say Pete, the roll top closure is well proven and it's fine.
Though daughter doesn't like it has she finds it difficult to use, but
she is only 9.

Think though for general use I have a bit of preference for the flap
type closures of the bikepackers. I'm looking to replace the aforesaid
Super C's and it will be with some variant of the Ortliebs I'm sure.
--
Chris French