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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



 
 
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  #141  
Old February 14th 18, 10:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 12:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I wear a styrofoam hat; I wear high-viz sometimes, and I use a bunch of different lights -- and even a DRL when its overcast or raining. So, I'm already half-way to believing. But when a study involving the safety benefits of a lame little hub-level blinky shows that it reduces solo daytime accidents by over 25%, that doesn't pass the smell test. Does the light improve wet-road grip? Braking power? Attention? Maybe the riders are just more vigilant being in a study group. I'm more vigilant when I know I'm being studied, particularly when I'm being studied by a cop.


You have to understand the difference between causation and correlation.
But there are legitimate reasons why solo accident rates also fall.

Read page 169 of
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=LvthAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA168&hl

The key thing is to use accurate research, with control groups, even if
they can't be double-blind perfect studies. I have no personal or
financial interest in promoting any agenda, I just would like cyclists
to believe accurate research and choose to take reasonable steps to
increase safety. OTOH, Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while
dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his
agenda. He doesn't realize that this approach doesn't help his agenda
because no one takes those fake studies seriously.
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  #142  
Old February 15th 18, 01:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do.


From the comments on that article: "My former commute of 6 years
involved a 5% climb for a mile on a narrow lane with no shoulder and not
enough room for car drivers to pass when there was oncoming traffic.
Over the years my lights have changed. I’ve had everything from one $5
taillight to 2 Superflashes (usually used in flashing mode) to a wide
dynamo taillight. I was surprised any time I switched lights that
drivers didn’t behave any differently. Regardless of lights, I found
that they passed safer and more cautiously when I started riding ~3ft
from the curb, rather than 1ft. They saw me, and would have to wait
patiently if there was oncoming traffic before passing."


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #143  
Old February 15th 18, 01:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 4:45 PM, sms wrote:
Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while
dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his
agenda.


So many accusations. So few examples.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #144  
Old February 15th 18, 02:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 07:11:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:08:10 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.

LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.


You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by
Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet
powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect?

Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make
Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did
you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing
the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little
bike light with bright clear illumination".

But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered
by a magnet attached to the spokes really is?

Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would
be a proponent of such a tiny little light.


A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd. You look at these studies and really wonder how valid they are. Not that a DRL is a bad thing, but again, during bright daylight, I see clothes long before lights. Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do.

-- Jay Beattie.


Given that it was a study carried out in a "collage town", with a
large percent of the students participating and a great deal of
publicity in the town about the study it is very possible that the
study did result in a reduction in accidents. At least for the period
of the study.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #145  
Old February 15th 18, 03:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:55:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/14/2018 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do.


From the comments on that article: "My former commute of 6 years
involved a 5% climb for a mile on a narrow lane with no shoulder and not
enough room for car drivers to pass when there was oncoming traffic.
Over the years my lights have changed. I’ve had everything from one $5
taillight to 2 Superflashes (usually used in flashing mode) to a wide
dynamo taillight. I was surprised any time I switched lights that
drivers didn’t behave any differently. Regardless of lights, I found
that they passed safer and more cautiously when I started riding ~3ft
from the curb, rather than 1ft. They saw me, and would have to wait
patiently if there was oncoming traffic before passing."



This parallels my experience with "bicycle lights". Since the
discussions started here I've tried a number of, lights on, lights
off, lights flashing, lights steady, front lights, rear lights, front
and rear lights, combinations, and to date I have detected no effect
on traffic that can be attributed to bicycle lights.

Passing, at least here, in the city, is very much a matter of traffic
speed. If traffic is really heavy you will get cars and motorcycles
that will creep up almost touching you at a stoplight while if traffic
is flowing freely at say 50 kph passing space is much wider.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #146  
Old February 15th 18, 03:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:55:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/14/2018 5:08 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.

LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.


You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by
Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet
powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect?

Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make
Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did
you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing
the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little
bike light with bright clear illumination".

But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered
by a magnet attached to the spokes really is?

Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would
be a proponent of such a tiny little light.


It's also laughable that Scharf (AKA "sms") has spent years telling us
that dynamo lights are totally inadequate. But he sings the praises of a
tiny light that blinks on only when a spoke magnet passes its little
pickup coil.


Ah but Scharf has become a politician, and everyone knows about
politicians....
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #147  
Old February 15th 18, 06:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:30:19 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:55:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/14/2018 5:08 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.

LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.

You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by
Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet
powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect?

Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make
Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did
you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing
the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little
bike light with bright clear illumination".

But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered
by a magnet attached to the spokes really is?

Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would
be a proponent of such a tiny little light.


It's also laughable that Scharf (AKA "sms") has spent years telling us
that dynamo lights are totally inadequate. But he sings the praises of a
tiny light that blinks on only when a spoke magnet passes its little
pickup coil.


Ah but Scharf has become a politician, and everyone knows about
politicians....
--
Cheers,

John B.



Now, now. Steven should be congratulated for his public service. More people need to be involved in public service. However, I still think DRLs in sunny California are dopey.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #148  
Old February 15th 18, 10:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 454
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2018 4:45 PM, sms wrote:
Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while
dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his
agenda.


So many accusations. So few examples.


The unScharf was projecting. Bull****ters who express brightness or
conspicuity in lumens or watts input might have visited consumer electronics
expositions, but have not been reading any studies.

--
Never attribute to rhetoric that which is more adequately explained in
clinical handbooks.
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAM9AAAAJDJhZTkwMjFmLTVlZDMtNDNiMC1iZW Q2LThkZDgyNWVkYzcwNA.jpg
  #149  
Old February 15th 18, 12:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 9:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Now, now. Steven should be congratulated for his public service. More people need to be involved in public service. However, I still think DRLs in sunny California are dopey.


It's in sunny areas where they are most necessary. In non-sunny areas
people are already using lights in the daytime.

And of course the necessary brightness of a DRL, which is used solely as
a "being seen" light, is much lower than what is needed to see the road
at night. You can learn more at
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/daytime_running_lights/. Of course
we will soon see claims that this is all self-interest by Trek, whose
sole aim is to sell more lights.
  #150  
Old February 15th 18, 01:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/15/2018 1:04 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2018 4:45 PM, sms wrote:
Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while
dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his
agenda.


So many accusations. So few examples.


The unScharf was projecting. Bull****ters who express brightness or
conspicuity in lumens or watts input might have visited consumer electronics
expositions, but have not been reading any studies.


LOL, in the days of incandescent lights, watts had some validity as a
means of comparison, but not any more, so you should not promote that
idea. As LEDs have evolved, lumens per watt has increased, so watts are
irrelevant unless the lights being compared use the same LEDs and driver
circuits.. However lumens are a valid, if imperfect, unit to use, which
is why most light manufacturers now rate their products in lumens rather
than watts.

Lumens measure how much light is emitted by a source. What many people
don't understand, when comparing bicycle lights, is how critically
important the optics are, and the compromises, with optics, that must be
made with low-output lights. A manufacturer of a light with a low lumen
source, will use optics that concentrate the limited number of lumens
into a very small area, and use Lux as their unit of measure as a means
of obfuscation. This is what you see with the lower power dynamo lights.

The manufacturers of the higher-end dynamo lights, with superior optics,
don't play the lux game, and they'll tell you the lumen output, at
different speeds, for different dynamos. For example, the Exposure Revo
Dynamo Light is very specific: 800 lumens, at 15 MPH, with the Exposure
dynamo (which is almost certainly a re-labled SP dynamo, see
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2ujr0k5.jpg). The SP dynamos have become the
defacto dynamo choice for those wanting the highest output from they
dynamo lights.

Of course all the data in the world won't change the opinion of someone
who makes up their mind based on emotion rather than on data.
 




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