Campy Rear Derailleurs

I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one shift better, faster, more precisely than the other? I'm sure Campagnolo and everyone who bought 11 speed will tell you on two stacks of Bibles that 11 speed is the best on earth and everything before it is trash and garbage. Or do you mean is the shifting mechanism, nature different between 10 and 11? I'd say sort of yes and no. Yes in that 11 moves the cable less difference and the chain less distance. But no if you mean one is using a cam and the other a pulley system or something to shift. I bet the method/mechanical of shifting is identical between 10 and 11, except the 11 moves everything a bit less.


I own Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed. Both shift perfectly to me. I doubt in a blind taste test I could tell the difference. And unless I am counting clicks and shifts, I can't tell which I am riding. All my 9 and 10 cassettes have about the same cogs, and similar chainrings, so gearing is pretty similar across most of my bikes.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 16:01:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one shift better,
faster, more precisely than the other? I'm sure Campagnolo and
everyone who bought 11 speed will tell you on two stacks of Bibles
that 11 speed is the best on earth and everything before it is trash
and garbage.

Sort of like they did when the New! 7 speed shifters came out :-)

Or do you mean is the shifting mechanism, nature different between 10 and 11? I'd say sort of yes and no. Yes in that 11 moves the cable less difference and the chain less distance. But no if you mean one is using a cam and the other a pulley system or something to shift. I bet the method/mechanical of shifting is identical between 10 and 11, except the 11 moves everything a bit less.


I own Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed. Both shift perfectly to me. I doubt in a blind taste test I could tell the difference. And unless I am counting clicks and shifts, I can't tell which I am riding. All my 9 and 10 cassettes have about the same cogs, and similar chainrings, so gearing is pretty similar across most of my bikes.

On 8/11/2018 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one shift better, faster, more precisely than the other?

I'm betting Tom is asking about the distance the derailleur moves
laterally for a given amount of cable pull.

But we'll see.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 9:30:57 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2018 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one shift better, faster, more precisely than the other?

I'm betting Tom is asking about the distance the derailleur moves
laterally for a given amount of cable pull.

But we'll see.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If that is the case, then the 11 speed shifter moves the rear derailleur less distance laterally than the 10 speed shifter. And the 10 moves less laterally than the 9. And the 9 moves laterally less than the 8. And the 8 moves laterally less than the 7. I think 130mm rear road spacing came into existence with 7 speed. Or was it 8? In any case, with more and more cogs on the same 130mm rear hub width, and assuming the freewheel body is the same length, then you need less and less space for each cog as you get more and more cogs.

wrote:
On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 9:30:57 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2018 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one
shift better, faster, more precisely than the other?

I'm betting Tom is asking about the distance the derailleur moves
laterally for a given amount of cable pull.

But we'll see.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If that is the case, then the 11 speed shifter moves the rear derailleur
less distance laterally than the 10 speed shifter. And the 10 moves less
laterally than the 9. And the 9 moves laterally less than the 8. And
the 8 moves laterally less than the 7. I think 130mm rear road spacing
came into existence with 7 speed. Or was it 8? In any case, with more
and more cogs on the same 130mm rear hub width, and assuming the
freewheel body is the same length, then you need less and less space for
each cog as you get more and more cogs.


Let's try this again. For a given amount of cable pull does a Campy 10
speed rear derailleur move the same horizontal distance as a Campy 11 speed
rear derailleur?

At least that's how I interpret the question.

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 5:29:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

List of rear shift ratios for various standards:
Shimano standard – 1.7 SRAM 2:1 – 1.7 Campagnolo old – 1.4
Shimano 10 MTB – 1.2 SRAM 1:1 – 1.1 Campagnolo new – 1.5
Shimano 11 road – 1.4 SRAM Exact Actuation – 1.3 Campagnolo Revolution 11+ – N/A
Shimano 11 MTB – 1.1 SRAM X-Actuation – 1.12
Shimano Dura Ace 6 to 8 speeds – 1.9

Cheers

On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:49:29 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 9:30:57 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2018 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one shift better, faster, more precisely than the other?

I'm betting Tom is asking about the distance the derailleur moves
laterally for a given amount of cable pull.

But we'll see.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If that is the case, then the 11 speed shifter moves the rear derailleur less distance laterally than the 10 speed shifter. And the 10 moves less laterally than the 9. And the 9 moves laterally less than the 8. And the 8 moves laterally less than the 7. I think 130mm rear road spacing came into existence with 7 speed. Or was it 8? In any case, with more and more cogs on the same 130mm rear hub width, and assuming the freewheel body is the same length, then you need less and less space for each cog as you get more and more cogs.

The "pitch" the thickness of a cog and the spacer, or effectively the
distance between the centerline of the cogs, is:
(all measurements in millimeters)

8 speed - 4.80, Sprocket thickness - 1.8, spacer thickness - 3.00

9 speed, - 4.35, 1.78, 2.54

10 speed - 3.95, 1.6, 2.35

11 speed - 3.74, 1.6, 2.14

Cable Pull for rear shifter:

8 speed: 2.8
9 speed: 2.5
10 speed: Several depending on model from 2.3 - 3.4
11 speed: Several depending on model from 2.7 - 3.6

See
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ing_Dimensions

for more details then you care to see :-)

On 8/11/2018 4:29 PM, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?


Yes and the (discontinued) Athena 11 is different again from
both groups. Annoyingly, front changer leverage/cable travel
changed as well.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/11/2018 6:01 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 4:29:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I expect that Muzi knows the answer to this one:

Is there any mechanical advantage difference between a 10 speed and 11 speed
Campy rear derailleur?

"mechanical advantage difference"? Meaning what exactly? Does one shift better, faster, more precisely than the other? I'm sure Campagnolo and everyone who bought 11 speed will tell you on two stacks of Bibles that 11 speed is the best on earth and everything before it is trash and garbage. Or do you mean is the shifting mechanism, nature different between 10 and 11? I'd say sort of yes and no. Yes in that 11 moves the cable less difference and the chain less distance. But no if you mean one is using a cam and the other a pulley system or something to shift. I bet the method/mechanical of shifting is identical between 10 and 11, except the 11 moves everything a bit less.


I own Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed. Both shift perfectly to me. I doubt in a blind taste test I could tell the difference. And unless I am counting clicks and shifts, I can't tell which I am riding. All my 9 and 10 cassettes have about the same cogs, and similar chainrings, so gearing is pretty similar across most of my bikes.


And you can swap your "labeled Nine" and "Labeled Ten"
changers with either 9 or 10 lever of classic (metal
1998~2005) or modern(nylon mechanism post 2005) style. They
are geometrically and functionally identical except for the
hot stamp on the outer cage plate.

Not so for eleven.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971