Duct Tape reduces vibration!

At a recent race I was oogling a friend's new Merckx Team SC. Gorgeous
blue purple with full Record, including carbon cranks. I asked him about
the carbon wrapped chainstays, an advertised feature, and he replied
that they were for vibration damping, saying that having the tubes
externally wrapped with something did this. He demonstrated the effect
by knocking on the top tube to produce a sound, then wrapped his palm
around the tube and knocked again, resulting in a muffled sound.

I then asked if duct tape wrapped around the bike would have the same
effect.

Silence.

Wayne

Wayne Pein wrote:
At a recent race I was oogling a friend's new Merckx Team SC. Gorgeous
blue purple with full Record, including carbon cranks. I asked him about
the carbon wrapped chainstays, an advertised feature, and he replied
that they were for vibration damping, saying that having the tubes
externally wrapped with something did this. He demonstrated the effect
by knocking on the top tube to produce a sound, then wrapped his palm
around the tube and knocked again, resulting in a muffled sound.
I then asked if duct tape wrapped around the bike would have the
same effect.
Silence.
Wayne


Did you put the duct tape over his mouth? ... maybe that would explai
the silence. I just couldn't resist. I see duct tape wrapped bicycle
often, but I assumed it was to cover their identity and make them looo
real ugly. Maybe those bicycle messengers just don't tell us about thei
vibration reduction solution


-

In article , daveornee
wrote:

Did you put the duct tape over his mouth? ... maybe that would explain
the silence. I just couldn't resist. I see duct tape wrapped bicycles
often, but I assumed it was to cover their identity and make them loook
real ugly. Maybe those bicycle messengers just don't tell us about their
vibration reduction solution.


Well I don't know about vibration reduction. But the rationale behind
the wrapping of (main triangle) tubes by messengers is to provide
protection for the bike. Hastily tossing and (free)locking your bike
against a wall or post 50+ times a day mutilates the frame in short
order.

Never used duct tape though. Cork tape was the preference.

luke

Luke wrote:
In article , daveornee
wrote:

Did you put the duct tape over his mouth? ... maybe that would explain
the silence. I just couldn't resist. I see duct tape wrapped bicycles
often, but I assumed it was to cover their identity and make them
loook real ugly. Maybe those bicycle messengers just don't tell us
about their vibration reduction solution.


Well I don't know about vibration reduction. But the rationale behind
the wrapping of (main triangle) tubes by messengers is to provide
protection for the bike. Hastily tossing and (free)locking your bike
against a wall or post 50+ times a day mutilates the frame in short
order.

Never used duct tape though. Cork tape was the preference.

luke

I've always wondered about messengers and locking bikes. Do they lock up
the wheels, or just the frame? I can see that a lot of messenger bikes
will have good strong wheels, and some of them will want QR skewers, but I
can't see taking the time to pull off a wheel or use a separate cable lock
at each stop, so what's the deal? I seem to remember you're in Toronto, so
maybe you can give me the local persepctive?

As for the OP I really don't think you can compare tubes wrapped in duct
tape to tubes gripped by a fleshy hand. This seems a really foolish
'proof' that the tape works. Unless the amount of tape you use weighs as
much as an arm..

As for the OP I really don't think you can compare tubes wrapped in
duct tape to tubes gripped by a fleshy hand. This seems a really
foolish 'proof' that the tape works. Unless the amount of tape you
use weighs as much as an arm..

It was a joke.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

As for the OP I really don't think you can compare tubes wrapped in
duct tape to tubes gripped by a fleshy hand. This seems a really
foolish 'proof' that the tape works. Unless the amount of tape you
use weighs as much as an arm..

It was a joke.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

In article rs.com,
Jacobe Hazzard wrote:

I've always wondered about messengers and locking bikes. Do they lock up
the wheels, or just the frame? I can see that a lot of messenger bikes
will have good strong wheels, and some of them will want QR skewers, but I
can't see taking the time to pull off a wheel or use a separate cable lock
at each stop, so what's the deal? I seem to remember you're in Toronto, so
maybe you can give me the local persepctive?

It's important to note that the dynamics of bike use for messengers and
- let's say for arguments sake - for commuters, are different. A
messenger will leave his bike briefly unattended dozens of times daily
in different locales while a commuter's bike will generally remain
unattended for an extended period time, often at the same location.
Furthermore, the environs of your working messenger are daytime city
centers; crowded and active. They along with a hectic schedule usually
conspire to limit the means to positively secure a messenger's bike
against theft.

Consequently, preventing a theft through impregnable security (if such
a thing exists) is troublesome at best. Fortunately, IMHO, it isn't
required. It's only necessary to complicate a theft in order to thwart
it because the constraints of time and conspicuousness are major
deterrents in of themselves.

While working, I aimed at discouraging the impulsive and opportunistic
thief - your typical crackhead or alcoholic looking for funds for the
next high - not the patient, knowledgeable pro who knows that Phil is a
hub - not a doctor with a TV show. If he wants your bike he'll get it.
But, as it impacted me, the threat by the first category was by far the
greater.

I'm uncertain what you mean by a 'local perspective.' I assume my
perspective to apply to other localities as well as Toronto, but I did
add an URL that applies to the city specifically. Anyway, here are few
observations from an ex-messenger.

Firstly: Always lock your bike. "Duh!," you say. Well, surprisingly,
through laziness, haste or perceived lack of threat, many couriers
don't always follow that golden rule. I know of 3 messengers who had
their bikes ripped off (at King and Bay) last summer. All the bikes
were left unattended for less than 5 minutes in crowded areas in broad
daylight. All the bikes were not locked.

Incidentally, once the routine is refined, locking your bike requires
minimal time and effort. Most couriers have the key to their bike lock
fastened to a retractable cord (wrapped round the wrist) or an elastic
bracelet. Once off the bike, the key is literally in your hands: No
fumbling in pockets or bags. (I still employ this method when using my
bike to tend to errands.) And the lock (in my case) was kept in a large
pocket of my 'cargo' pants, located on the side of my thigh, or an
external loop located on my messenger bag. I only mention this because
the entire process of dismounting and locking the bike rarely took more
than 10 or so seconds. It was not a significant cost in time. So
there's no excuse for leaving a bike unlocked.

How you lock your bicycle falls into two categories; "Free Locking" and
locking your bike to an immovable object (utility pole, bike posts).
The optimal situation is a passing a lock through the frame and perhaps
a wheel to a bike post/pole. It's the method a typical cyclist employs.

But, by far, the most common was "free locking" This involves passing
the lock through the frame or chain/seat stays as well as one of the
wheels - but NOT securing the bike to an immovable object (because none
are conveniently available.) If a thief wants to make off with the bike
he would literally have to carry it away. And those that tried would
often find themselves surrounded by couriers who knew the bike was
pilfered or accosted by the bike owner himself chasing him down on
foot. This was most typically done at the First Can Place, TD Center
etc... within the city core in business hours. Of course, there are
bike racks available in the area but if your drop required the use of a
service or remote entrance then free locking was generally preferred.

I would generally leave the bike as far as practicable from Subway
entrances or underground parking areas. If this was not possible I'd
lock it to the actual Subway stair railing (I did this North east
corner of Yonge and Carlton). Another example: North side of TD tower
(55 King St. W) rather than Wellington St side: If free locked your
bike could be taken down to the rear underground parking.

The object was to A) avoid leaving the bike unattended in an area
where one could be alone with it and B) limiting the escape options of
a thief.

The type of lock - chain or U - is a matter of personal taste. I've
used both, but prefer U-Locks because they are stored and handled more
easily. As far as the security provided by the two designs; both were
adequate enough *for the purpose*. That is, it would require a thief
tools, time and a *conspicuous* effort (bystanders would know he was
stealing) to liberate the bicycle.

As far as individually locking easily detachable components: Again, IMO
this wasn't really an issue because of the duration of time that the
bicycle was left unattended. Even so, those with QRs would often clamp
them closed (using a hose clamp readily available at a hardware store
for 50 cents) This, at least required the thief to possess a
screwdriver and a few minutes to make off with a QR wheel. I never
resorted to this when working, but frequently did remove my front (QR)
wheel when locking the bike off hours. My rear wheels employed fixed
gear hubs; they were bolted on. Also, my wheels were not your boutique
beauties: 3x 36 spoke with single walled rims. Utilitarian, durable and
unpretentious.

On the topic: most of the messengers, including myself, did not ride
exotic machinery. It has a tendency to attract unwanted attention. In
fact some of the bikes were *looked like* - as opposed to were -
beaters. No Trek OCLVs, Lightspeeds with Ksyrium wheelsets etc...

Occasionally, a theft did occur. And the bike courier community is
tight knit and nothing infuriates more than a theft; it's tantamount to
stealing food from someone's plate. Word of a stolen bicycle spreads
like wildfire and most messengers know their colleagues' bicycles by
sight. There have been instances of thieves being apprehended by
messengers (one was careless enough to ride right by epicenter of
courier cultu Spreads @ Yonge and Temperance) and suffering
pummellings they'll not soon forget.

Adhering to the preceding proved successfull for me (for the 2+ years I
rode). You'll note that none of the methods outlined are exceptional.
It's important to reiterate that the circumstances of an impulsive,
opportunistic theft are different from those involving a patient and
determined thief. And because of the quality of messenger bicycle use,
a casual or commuting cyclist is often more vulnerable to the latter.

So, the working messenger's rationale in securing a bicycle obviously
does NOT apply to the majority of cyclists. It is needlessly risky when
it's applied to the security of casual and commuter bicycles.

Not surprisingly, MOST OF THE THEFTS I KNOW OF INVOLVING THE BIKES OF
COURIERS OCCURRED *AFTER* WORKING HOURS. And the dynamics of those
thefts mirror exactly the circumstances of bike thefts that occur in
the greater cycling community. ie. Leaving a bike unlocked on a
friend's veranda (Riverdale), locking of a bike in the evening while
attending a BBQ (with a cheap U-lock that was jimmied with a 2x4 @
Bathurst/Bloor)...

Here the general precautions for the city apply.
- Always lock the bike using a GOOD lock in well lighted, well
traversed areas.
- Take the bike indoors whenever possible. Always overnight.
- If you must leave the bike outside overnight then use a POS (Piece
of Sh_t)
- Better yet, use the beater in all high risk areas

etc...

For more of the same, a while back I (pseudonym=linguinee) posted at
http://tbn.on.ca/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/...bngeneral&Numb
er=487&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5#Post487


Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :-)
luke

Luke wrote:
Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :-)
luke

Yeah, very informative. I'm thinking about doing a stint as a courier, as
I've always been curious and I think I would be pretty good at it. Also
it's an excuse to build up another bike.

By local perspective I just meant that Toronto is notoriously bad for bike
thefts. From what you said, it might be in my best interests to make my
bike look as cheap as it is (boutique wheels, what're those?) but still
identifiable.

Luke wrote:
Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :-)
luke

Yeah, very informative. I'm thinking about doing a stint as a courier, as
I've always been curious and I think I would be pretty good at it. Also
it's an excuse to build up another bike.

By local perspective I just meant that Toronto is notoriously bad for bike
thefts. From what you said, it might be in my best interests to make my
bike look as cheap as it is (boutique wheels, what're those?) but still
identifiable.

In article rs.com,
Jacobe Hazzard wrote:

I've always wondered about messengers and locking bikes. Do they lock up
the wheels, or just the frame? I can see that a lot of messenger bikes
will have good strong wheels, and some of them will want QR skewers, but I
can't see taking the time to pull off a wheel or use a separate cable lock
at each stop, so what's the deal? I seem to remember you're in Toronto, so
maybe you can give me the local persepctive?

It's important to note that the dynamics of bike use for messengers and
- let's say for arguments sake - for commuters, are different. A
messenger will leave his bike briefly unattended dozens of times daily
in different locales while a commuter's bike will generally remain
unattended for an extended period time, often at the same location.
Furthermore, the environs of your working messenger are daytime city
centers; crowded and active. They along with a hectic schedule usually
conspire to limit the means to positively secure a messenger's bike
against theft.

Consequently, preventing a theft through impregnable security (if such
a thing exists) is troublesome at best. Fortunately, IMHO, it isn't
required. It's only necessary to complicate a theft in order to thwart
it because the constraints of time and conspicuousness are major
deterrents in of themselves.

While working, I aimed at discouraging the impulsive and opportunistic
thief - your typical crackhead or alcoholic looking for funds for the
next high - not the patient, knowledgeable pro who knows that Phil is a
hub - not a doctor with a TV show. If he wants your bike he'll get it.
But, as it impacted me, the threat by the first category was by far the
greater.

I'm uncertain what you mean by a 'local perspective.' I assume my
perspective to apply to other localities as well as Toronto, but I did
add an URL that applies to the city specifically. Anyway, here are few
observations from an ex-messenger.

Firstly: Always lock your bike. "Duh!," you say. Well, surprisingly,
through laziness, haste or perceived lack of threat, many couriers
don't always follow that golden rule. I know of 3 messengers who had
their bikes ripped off (at King and Bay) last summer. All the bikes
were left unattended for less than 5 minutes in crowded areas in broad
daylight. All the bikes were not locked.

Incidentally, once the routine is refined, locking your bike requires
minimal time and effort. Most couriers have the key to their bike lock
fastened to a retractable cord (wrapped round the wrist) or an elastic
bracelet. Once off the bike, the key is literally in your hands: No
fumbling in pockets or bags. (I still employ this method when using my
bike to tend to errands.) And the lock (in my case) was kept in a large
pocket of my 'cargo' pants, located on the side of my thigh, or an
external loop located on my messenger bag. I only mention this because
the entire process of dismounting and locking the bike rarely took more
than 10 or so seconds. It was not a significant cost in time. So
there's no excuse for leaving a bike unlocked.

How you lock your bicycle falls into two categories; "Free Locking" and
locking your bike to an immovable object (utility pole, bike posts).
The optimal situation is a passing a lock through the frame and perhaps
a wheel to a bike post/pole. It's the method a typical cyclist employs.

But, by far, the most common was "free locking" This involves passing
the lock through the frame or chain/seat stays as well as one of the
wheels - but NOT securing the bike to an immovable object (because none
are conveniently available.) If a thief wants to make off with the bike
he would literally have to carry it away. And those that tried would
often find themselves surrounded by couriers who knew the bike was
pilfered or accosted by the bike owner himself chasing him down on
foot. This was most typically done at the First Can Place, TD Center
etc... within the city core in business hours. Of course, there are
bike racks available in the area but if your drop required the use of a
service or remote entrance then free locking was generally preferred.

I would generally leave the bike as far as practicable from Subway
entrances or underground parking areas. If this was not possible I'd
lock it to the actual Subway stair railing (I did this North east
corner of Yonge and Carlton). Another example: North side of TD tower
(55 King St. W) rather than Wellington St side: If free locked your
bike could be taken down to the rear underground parking.

The object was to A) avoid leaving the bike unattended in an area
where one could be alone with it and B) limiting the escape options of
a thief.

The type of lock - chain or U - is a matter of personal taste. I've
used both, but prefer U-Locks because they are stored and handled more
easily. As far as the security provided by the two designs; both were
adequate enough *for the purpose*. That is, it would require a thief
tools, time and a *conspicuous* effort (bystanders would know he was
stealing) to liberate the bicycle.

As far as individually locking easily detachable components: Again, IMO
this wasn't really an issue because of the duration of time that the
bicycle was left unattended. Even so, those with QRs would often clamp
them closed (using a hose clamp readily available at a hardware store
for 50 cents) This, at least required the thief to possess a
screwdriver and a few minutes to make off with a QR wheel. I never
resorted to this when working, but frequently did remove my front (QR)
wheel when locking the bike off hours. My rear wheels employed fixed
gear hubs; they were bolted on. Also, my wheels were not your boutique
beauties: 3x 36 spoke with single walled rims. Utilitarian, durable and
unpretentious.

On the topic: most of the messengers, including myself, did not ride
exotic machinery. It has a tendency to attract unwanted attention. In
fact some of the bikes were *looked like* - as opposed to were -
beaters. No Trek OCLVs, Lightspeeds with Ksyrium wheelsets etc...

Occasionally, a theft did occur. And the bike courier community is
tight knit and nothing infuriates more than a theft; it's tantamount to
stealing food from someone's plate. Word of a stolen bicycle spreads
like wildfire and most messengers know their colleagues' bicycles by
sight. There have been instances of thieves being apprehended by
messengers (one was careless enough to ride right by epicenter of
courier cultu Spreads @ Yonge and Temperance) and suffering
pummellings they'll not soon forget.

Adhering to the preceding proved successfull for me (for the 2+ years I
rode). You'll note that none of the methods outlined are exceptional.
It's important to reiterate that the circumstances of an impulsive,
opportunistic theft are different from those involving a patient and
determined thief. And because of the quality of messenger bicycle use,
a casual or commuting cyclist is often more vulnerable to the latter.

So, the working messenger's rationale in securing a bicycle obviously
does NOT apply to the majority of cyclists. It is needlessly risky when
it's applied to the security of casual and commuter bicycles.

Not surprisingly, MOST OF THE THEFTS I KNOW OF INVOLVING THE BIKES OF
COURIERS OCCURRED *AFTER* WORKING HOURS. And the dynamics of those
thefts mirror exactly the circumstances of bike thefts that occur in
the greater cycling community. ie. Leaving a bike unlocked on a
friend's veranda (Riverdale), locking of a bike in the evening while
attending a BBQ (with a cheap U-lock that was jimmied with a 2x4 @
Bathurst/Bloor)...

Here the general precautions for the city apply.
- Always lock the bike using a GOOD lock in well lighted, well
traversed areas.
- Take the bike indoors whenever possible. Always overnight.
- If you must leave the bike outside overnight then use a POS (Piece
of Sh_t)
- Better yet, use the beater in all high risk areas

etc...

For more of the same, a while back I (pseudonym=linguinee) posted at
http://tbn.on.ca/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/...bngeneral&Numb
er=487&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5#Post487


Hope that helped Jacobe. Keep riding :-)
luke