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#51
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:06:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:24:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...37239..jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? Quit trying to bull**** your way out of this. What gave you the idea that John could braze or that he was a welder? That's the same kind of crap that John has been handing out since he got here. He claims to have been a crew chief understand? All he did was take the flight maintenance writeups from the crew and call the people that COULD do things. If he worked at a job outside of his retirement from the service it was probably paperwork because they needed someone that could speak English. I'm not trying to knock John other than he is bull****ting everything he comments on. I was in the Air Force remember? I know what crew chiefs were. Ah well, I have said that I was a certified aircraft welder, haven't I? Perhaps you don't know that a "certified welder" is? As for being a "crew chief" how in the world would you know what a "crew chief" did. You enlisted in, what? About 1962? That is ten years after I joined and certainly 7 years after I was a crew chief? Do you have any idea what aircraft maintenance was like before the A.F. went to the "specialized Maintenance" system? Do you even know that there was a system before the Air Force copied the so called "specialized Maintenance" system from the commercial airlines? But of course you are an expert in the Air force, after all you have stated that you served in at least two A.F. units that never existed. Commercial airlines were copied because the previous system didn't work. Crew chiefs did exactly the same thing from the Army Air Corp in WW II. You can continue to harp on your bull**** or continue on with the fact that I had a concussion that removed details like which Air Force command I served under but that doesn't change the fact that being a "certified aircraft welder" doesn't mean a hell of a lot. So are every one of the mechanics at Kaiser Air and if they had structural damage to their planes the FACTORY would send out people. Those older aircraft like you B50 had even greater stresses on them because structural engineering still hadn't caught up with power or aerodynamic loads. |
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#52
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 9:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2021 7:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/15/2021 8:30 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 4:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: There is serious cost in building a massive frame fixture. You need to produce and sell a large number of frames to amortize that cost. For a very low production volume it's not worth doing and absolutely not necessary. I've known several people who have built steel frames, At least two of those guys were mechanical engineers, including a good friend of mine whom I consider to be the smartest engineer I ever worked with. (We were in grad school together, and later I hired him to teach in our program.) He did workshops on frame building at LAW conventions, back when they had LAW conventions. That guy built absolutely beautiful (concours d'elegance winning) single frames, plus several tandems. Others built recumbents from instructions or, in one case, from the builder's own design. None of them used massive frame plates. Tom's made it very clear that in addition to being a bumbling mechanic, he has little understanding of the economics of manufacturing, ...Â*Â* You never really know what's under the paint -- or whether the joints are filled and not over-heated.Â* I've seen beautiful bikes fall apart -- and bikes that were not so beautiful after you stripped off the paint (e.g. dynafile dings filled with brass in '70s Ritchey frames). That brings up an interesting point: We can assess the beauty of a frame according to our individual taste. But how do you know any particular frame is really good? What matters in that evaluation? If I stripped the paint off a well-used frame and saw a ding filled with brass, I don't think it would bother me, assuming it hadn't caused a failure. OTOH, overheating tubes can lead to failure - but how does one tell before the failure occurs? I'm the guy whose custom tandem had its fork blades suddenly break off. The builder, Jim Bradford, substituted track gage fork blades in place of tandem gage blades. I never bothered to weigh the fork, let alone X-ray it, so that defect was hidden from me. The blades broke maybe half an inch below the fork crown. I can't say if that was evidence of overheating as well. Given that the wall thickness was 1/3 what it should have been, any overheating was probably just icing on the cake. I don't know either. Sprint track blades were the same beefy 1.2mm gauge as tandem blades then.Â* On a tandem though, round blades are not ideal as the blade flex is against a smaller section (22mm? 24mm?) than a 29mm classic oval blade. Riders here are already familiar with normal fork flex and tandems have a lot more of that. Pursuit blades at 0.8mm (or even 0.9) would not be a very good choice at all in vintage material for a road tandem. I just measured the broken fork blade's wall thickness. I get 0.7mm. And these were 22mm round, not oval. After the crash, I was on the phone with Jack Goertz of Tandems, Ltd. He said he had told Jim Bradford his forks were too flimsy, but Bradford didn't listen. I assume Jack was talking about ones with normal wall thickness, not this stupid-light version. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#53
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 9:49 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 8:49:31 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/15/2021 8:30 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 4:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: There is serious cost in building a massive frame fixture. You need to produce and sell a large number of frames to amortize that cost. For a very low production volume it's not worth doing and absolutely not necessary. I've known several people who have built steel frames, At least two of those guys were mechanical engineers, including a good friend of mine whom I consider to be the smartest engineer I ever worked with. (We were in grad school together, and later I hired him to teach in our program.) He did workshops on frame building at LAW conventions, back when they had LAW conventions. That guy built absolutely beautiful (concours d'elegance winning) single frames, plus several tandems. Others built recumbents from instructions or, in one case, from the builder's own design. None of them used massive frame plates. Tom's made it very clear that in addition to being a bumbling mechanic, he has little understanding of the economics of manufacturing, ... You never really know what's under the paint -- or whether the joints are filled and not over-heated. I've seen beautiful bikes fall apart -- and bikes that were not so beautiful after you stripped off the paint (e.g. dynafile dings filled with brass in '70s Ritchey frames). That brings up an interesting point: We can assess the beauty of a frame according to our individual taste. But how do you know any particular frame is really good? What matters in that evaluation? If I stripped the paint off a well-used frame and saw a ding filled with brass, I don't think it would bother me, assuming it hadn't caused a failure. OTOH, overheating tubes can lead to failure - but how does one tell before the failure occurs? I'm the guy whose custom tandem had its fork blades suddenly break off. The builder, Jim Bradford, substituted track gage fork blades in place of tandem gage blades. I never bothered to weigh the fork, let alone X-ray it, so that defect was hidden from me. The blades broke maybe half an inch below the fork crown. I can't say if that was evidence of overheating as well. Given that the wall thickness was 1/3 what it should have been, any overheating was probably just icing on the cake. -- - Frank Krygowski Did you sue the builder? No. The bike was decades old when the forks finally failed. I tried looking for Jim Bradford and was told he had fled to Canada. Even if he were nearby, a lawsuit would not have made sense. Our injuries were minor, as was the damage to the bike. (We were waiting for friends to catch up with us and pedaling only about 10 mph.) The replacement fork was not expensive. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#54
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote:
Oh yes, I forgot. In some places they may still use an acetylene generator a sort of tank thing that you put calcium carbide and water in and if it is working right it generates acetylene... if it is not working right it likely blows up :-) Probably the most exciting type of bike headlight! Anyone here ever use a carbide lamp? (Astonishingly, I haven't.) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#55
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 11:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 13:31:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. You may have built motorcycle dragsters (although I doubt it) but you certainly aren't a competent machinist. You can, or at least I can, fit bicycle tubes using nothing but a hacksaw and a file although I did, when I built that frame, use a vertical milling machine to rough cut the tubes and finished them with a file. As for heavy jigs... well have a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWcWrjdB2Ao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMUq2ioes9Y Interesting videos, thanks. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 3:47:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2021 5:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles.. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? Quit trying to bull**** your way out of this. What gave you the idea that John could braze or that he was a welder? That's the same kind of crap that John has been handing out since he got here. He claims to have been a crew chief understand? All he did was take the flight maintenance writeups from the crew and call the people that COULD do things. If he worked at a job outside of his retirement from the service it was probably paperwork because they needed someone that could speak English. I'm not trying to knock John other than he is bull****ting everything he comments on. I was in the Air Force remember? I know what crew chiefs were. I hand miter tubes because it's much faster than the setup time on a lathe. Much faster. My frame plate is a massive chunk of steel but I built frames before I made that and several famous builders ran their whole careers with simple straightedge, level and machinist's protractor: http://www.yellowjersey.org/NAGASA2X.JPG If your facility is doing large numbers of frames in batches, better tooling pays in time saved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/bassoworks.jpg For one-offs such as custom builds or repairs it's not clear to me at all. As a one time semi-practicing machinist, I would be be very interested in how you could miter a tube with a lath. I can think of a couple of ways but it would all require so much tooling that it would be cheaper to buy a mill.. |
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/16/2021 1:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 3:47:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 5:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? Quit trying to bull**** your way out of this. What gave you the idea that John could braze or that he was a welder? That's the same kind of crap that John has been handing out since he got here. He claims to have been a crew chief understand? All he did was take the flight maintenance writeups from the crew and call the people that COULD do things. If he worked at a job outside of his retirement from the service it was probably paperwork because they needed someone that could speak English. I'm not trying to knock John other than he is bull****ting everything he comments on. I was in the Air Force remember? I know what crew chiefs were. I hand miter tubes because it's much faster than the setup time on a lathe. Much faster. My frame plate is a massive chunk of steel but I built frames before I made that and several famous builders ran their whole careers with simple straightedge, level and machinist's protractor: http://www.yellowjersey.org/NAGASA2X.JPG If your facility is doing large numbers of frames in batches, better tooling pays in time saved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/bassoworks.jpg For one-offs such as custom builds or repairs it's not clear to me at all. As a one time semi-practicing machinist, I would be be very interested in how you could miter a tube with a lath. I can think of a couple of ways but it would all require so much tooling that it would be cheaper to buy a mill. That's true but many people own lathes. A nice Bridgeport vertical mill (as Bruce Gordon used) is another level of expense mass and shop space. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 12:18:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote: Oh yes, I forgot. In some places they may still use an acetylene generator a sort of tank thing that you put calcium carbide and water in and if it is working right it generates acetylene... if it is not working right it likely blows up :-) Probably the most exciting type of bike headlight! Anyone here ever use a carbide lamp? (Astonishingly, I haven't.) We used carbide "miner's lamps" to blacken sights when I was shooting on an Air Force pistol team. But, as blackening sights takes only a second or two we didn't put water in the lamps, just spit in the carbide section close it up and ignite it and it would burn for a few seconds. By the way, carbide generators blow up because acetylene gas explodes if the pressure reaches something like 29 psi. -- Cheers, John B. |
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 12:18:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Anyone here ever use a carbide lamp? (Astonishingly, I haven't.) While cleaning the garage a few days ago, I found an orange bag containing two carbide lamps, a few spare bottoms, and a plastic baby bottle once used for transporting extra carbide. Cavers had a lot of uses for lightweight, unbreakable baby bottles in the sixties. Me, I taped my lunch inside my helmet. Helmets for cavers weren't the least bit controversial in them days -- aside from being the only way to attach your lamp (there's a slot in the helmet and a tab on the back of the lamp), anybody who thought they were un-needed changed his mind right quick when we handed him a loaner. It helped that cave mud indelibly dyed every scratch and ding a bright contrast to the plastic. I think I saw the helmets a decade or so ago. Might still be around. But *those* lights definitely wouldn't work on bicycles -- no glass in front of the flame. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at centurylink dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ |
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Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/16/2021 7:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2021 1:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: As a one time semi-practicing machinist, I would be be very interested in how you could miter a tube with a lath. I can think of a couple of ways but it would all require so much tooling that it would be cheaper to buy a mill. That's true but many people own lathes. A nice Bridgeport vertical mill (as Bruce Gordon used) is another level of expense mass and shop space. I wish I had the shop space for a mill. I do have two metal lathes and one wood lathe, the latter in semi-storage. But if I were mitering tubes for one bike frame, I don't think building much sophisticated tooling would be worthwhile. Something simple, perhaps, based on using the compound rest to control angles. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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