Bicyclists going wrong way and other crimes

"Bill Baka" wrote in message
news
You want to be so righteous and not allow for circumstances, that's
fine with me, you get dead, I get flak from the group. Had that
van been coming up behind me I would have been splatted on the
windshield, right way riding or not.
That was one time. You stand a much greater chance of getting
into trouble by riding on the wrong side of the road where you
aren't supposed to be.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:35:42 GMT, S o r n i
wrote:

Bingo. Sure sounds like the van driver WANTED to force poor Bill off the
road, just for sport. Not saying it's right, of course, but I can't help
thinking it wouldn't have happened if he'd been on the *RIGHT* (two
meanings) side of the street.

DRUNK! He almost hit a bunch of cars at the red light about 1 block further
down the road.

I'm not saying there aren't EVER any cases where one might be /forced/ to
ride facing traffic (can think of two -- one road bike and one mtb --
just
on Balboa Avenue near my home), but the point is to make it as brief as
possible. Also requires VERY defensive riding.

If you mean Balboa in San Diego I have ridden that and never had to go
the wrong way. I did see one car in a very strange accident on Balboa.
The car had run up a telephone guy wire and a sitting on the rear
bumper nearly vertical on the wire. Nobody hurt but the driver had
to be seriously embarrased.

To choose to ride wrong way on an open stretch of road like that
pictured is
just stupid and dangerous (and not JUST to the rider).

That section of road is between me and my mountain playground so I
would rather be deemed 'stupid' by the masses than 'dead right'.

Bill "giving up convincing him now" S.


Please do. This road is a favorite place for teenagers to hot rod,
and I have no faith in their judgement.
Bill Baka


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Bill Baka wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:35:42 GMT, S o r n i
wrote:

Bingo. Sure sounds like the van driver WANTED to force poor Bill
off the road, just for sport. Not saying it's right, of course, but
I can't help thinking it wouldn't have happened if he'd been on the
*RIGHT* (two meanings) side of the street.

DRUNK! He almost hit a bunch of cars at the red light about 1 block
further down the road.

OK, my last words on the subject (in this thread, at least!). If you'd been
on the CORRECT side of the road, he wouldn't have come close to you, right?
If indeed he was drunk, he probably steered at you BECAUSE HE WAS LOOKING AT
YOU (just like we hit rocks we stare at on the trail). He wouldn't have
even noticed you if you weren't riding on "his" side of the road.

I'm not saying there aren't EVER any cases where one might be
/forced/ to ride facing traffic (can think of two -- one road bike
and one mtb -- just
on Balboa Avenue near my home), but the point is to make it as brief
as possible. Also requires VERY defensive riding.

If you mean Balboa in San Diego I have ridden that and never had to go
the wrong way.

Yes, I mean Balboa. There are dividers (island-type or actual barriers) in
the middle of the road, making it very dangerous to attempt crossing. On my
road bike route, I sometimes come out on Santa Fe Street, and need to head
east. I can either cross 5-6 lanes of fast-moving traffic (separated by a
wide, curbed median), or ride about ONE BLOCK *on the sidewalk* facing
traffic, before reaching a cross street where I become a regular vehicle
again. That's what I do, but understanding that cars WILL NOT EXPECT ME
THERE, and riding very cautiously accordingly.

The other (very rare because of this) case is a dirt trailhead that is right
off Balboa near my house. I ride down the hill, turn right and I'm on it.
Coming BACK, however, I'm on the wrong side of the road, and there's a
four-foot-tall barrier in the middle of the 4 lanes. I could either risk
life and limb by crossing where people are doing 60-70 easy, or simply ride
back up the hill facing traffic for about a quarter-mile. That's what I do,
although like I said I basically avoid this loop altogether DUE TO THIS VERY
FACTOR. It's just not smart or comfortable to ride the wrong way.

Bill "OK, happy riding Bill; just don't kill anyone out there" S.

Bill Baka wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:35:42 GMT, S o r n i
wrote:

Bingo. Sure sounds like the van driver WANTED to force poor Bill off
the
road, just for sport. Not saying it's right, of course, but I can't
help
thinking it wouldn't have happened if he'd been on the *RIGHT* (two
meanings) side of the street.

DRUNK! He almost hit a bunch of cars at the red light about 1 block
further
down the road.

If he was drunk, you were simply lucky that he did what he did before
hitting you. If he had drifted a few seconds later, you would have been
nailed. It wasn't your riding skills that saved you, it was dumb luck.

snip

To choose to ride wrong way on an open stretch of road like that
pictured is
just stupid and dangerous (and not JUST to the rider).

That section of road is between me and my mountain playground so I
would rather be deemed 'stupid' by the masses than 'dead right'.

The sad truth is, you're still much more likely to be dead wrong.

Bill "giving up convincing him now" S.


Please do. This road is a favorite place for teenagers to hot rod,
and I have no faith in their judgement.

I don't have faith in other driver's judgement either, which is why I ride
in the lane. It makes it black-and-white clear (no judgment required) that
they have to change lanes to pass me. When riding close to the edge, a
cyclist is telling them "there should be enough room for you".

Austin

In article , Bill Baka wrote:

Try this.
Safe way to ride, wrong way or not.
http://www.syix.com/bbaka/bike/wrong_right.jpg

Right way to ride, but suicidal.
http://www.syix.com/bbaka/bike/right_wrong.jpg
Anybody who wishes to ride this road by the book,
please let me know where to send the flowers.

Really wrong way to ride.
http://www.syix.com/bbaka/bike/wrong_wrong.jpg

Really right way to ride.
http://www.syix.com/bbaka/bike/right_right.jpg

Get the point?
Some conditions require just a bit of thinking outside the box.
Better alive than dead and legal.

The point I am getting is that you don't have a clue how to ride
in traffic and are affraid of cars keeping you from even trying the
best method. If you are trying to show where to ride all locations
are either completely wrong from being on the wrong side of the road
or are too close to the edge of the pavement to be safe.

See where the outer edge of your left hand grip is in the last
(http://www.syix.com/bbaka/bike/right_right.jpg) picture? That's
where I would have my wheels.

Here is a publication on how to ride a bicycle in traffic:
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/fourthlevel/pdf/pamanual.pdf

In article , Bill Baka wrote:

You won't have a close call, you will have a final impact on this road.
This is the road where I almost got nailed by a van doing 100 MPH and
drifting over the line onto the shoulder. I saw and bailed into the dirt.
I never would have seen him if I had been LEGAL.
Sorry, reality check.

Let's see how this is flawed.

You wouldn't even had a close call if you were on the correct side of
the road.

Ever think that he ran you into the ditch purposely because you were
on the wrong side of the road?

In article , Bill Baka wrote:


You want to be so righteous and not allow for circumstances, that's
fine with me, you get dead, I get flak from the group. Had that
van been coming up behind me I would have been splatted on the
windshield, right way riding or not.

There is no basis for this assumption. I've had vehicles come up
fast behind me in this manner and I've had to move right, sometimes
off the pavement. There is this thing called hearing. Vans moving at
100mph vans are pretty loud.

If you can't allow for the
possibility that there are idiots driving 4,000 pounds of steel
then maybe you can't comprehend that you will be dead before you
know it in some cases.
R.I.P.
Dead right.

I ride in much higher traffic densities than the road you illustrated.
I ride on the correct side of the road, the right side. Many of those
roads aren't any wider than the one you pictured. I've been doing this
for YEARS. I find the idea of wrong way riding playing dodge'em to be
suicidal to say the least.

Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:41:18 GMT, iF8Sc.233317$a24.158472@attbi_s03,
(Brent P) wrote:


Ever think that he ran you into the ditch purposely because you were
on the wrong side of the road?

Ever think that's a stupid spiteful bratty asswipe thing to do?
guffaw (and it gives all drivers a bad name) \guffaw

Ever think that the stupid asswipe wouldn't have the nads to try the
same thing with a bicycle?
--
zk

In article , Zoot Katz wrote:
Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:41:18 GMT, iF8Sc.233317$a24.158472@attbi_s03,
(Brent P) wrote:


Ever think that he ran you into the ditch purposely because you were
on the wrong side of the road?

Ever think that's a stupid spiteful bratty asswipe thing to do?
guffaw (and it gives all drivers a bad name) \guffaw

I've had drivers going the opposite direction cross the center line
to purposely try to run me in the ditch.

Ever think that the stupid asswipe wouldn't have the nads to try the
same thing with a bicycle?

I dunno. Personally when I encounter a wrong way when I am riding that
wrong way is either going into the curb/ditch or heading towards the
side of the road he's supposed to be on.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:41:18 GMT, Brent P
wrote:

In article , Bill Baka wrote:

You won't have a close call, you will have a final impact on this road.
This is the road where I almost got nailed by a van doing 100 MPH and
drifting over the line onto the shoulder. I saw and bailed into the
dirt.
I never would have seen him if I had been LEGAL.
Sorry, reality check.

Let's see how this is flawed.

You wouldn't even had a close call if you were on the correct side of
the road.

Ever think that he ran you into the ditch purposely because you were
on the wrong side of the road?


So let me get this straight, he accelerated to about 100 MPH and then
almost hit a group of cars at a light because of me? I'm flattered he
thought so much of me. Had I been riding the right way coming the other
direction I would not have seen him and would have been road kill.
I live in the country in a pseudo-urban low rent disrict (temporary) where
there are a lot of drunks, drug users (did I mention California?), and
just plain old rednecks. Not enough cops on patrol and this is a back road
that people use to avoid the cops on the main road. It is the only road I
can use to get away from people and to the mountain trails.
Bill Baka


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