funny things to do on a bike

"James Calivar" wrote in message hlink.net...
wrote in message
You cannot destroy Al Qaeda with military action.

Wrong.

While it may be theoretically possible to destroy Al Qaeda with
military action, we certainly have not shown that we can. All the
indications are that "Al Qaeda", meaning a loose confederation of
extremist Islamic terrorists groups, is stronger now than it was, and
that US military action has done more to strengthen it than to weaken
it.

Say you were a normal, relatively moderate individual who lived in,
say, Idaho, but unfortunately for you, there was a right wing militia
that lived a couple of counties away from you. Well, one day you're at
work, and the government decides to deploy troops and air power to
take out that militia and while they're at it, because they really
consider everyone who lives in Idaho to be a right wing revolutionary,
they indiscriminately drop a bomb on your house and kill your entire
family. When you come home to this, what do you do?

This scenario is being repeated over and over again in the Middle
East, by the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, and by Sharon in Gaza and the
West Bank. You cannot win a war this way, by creating more hate- and
rage-filled enemies than you are able to kill or capture. It doesn't
matter how efficient you are at killing them because it is not enough
and the war will never stop. We saw it in Vietnam, the French saw it
in Algeria, the USSR saw it in Afghanistan and Chechnya. We have got
to find a different way to fight this war if we want to end it. Of
course, some seem to have found a way to extract political advantage
from prolonging and expanding our war, and that may be a large part of
the problem.

JP

wrote in message
...
Eric S. Sande writes:

The situation has reached a state that is difficult to recover.

No ****.

The point is that no one has a plausible exit strategy and that we are
a lot worse off in world security now than before removal of Saddam
Hussein, not to mention the US economy. Print money!

Jobst Brandt


This whole situation is driving me mad. All the years of war games and
"what if" scenarios and they still went to war with just the expectation
that we would be showered with flowers and kisses and had no backup plan if
things did not go that way. The very fact that Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld
and Ashcroft (I don't think Bush has any real foreign affairs understanding
beyond good-guy bad-guy) truly seem to believe that we could easily impose
our system of gov't on a dictatorship and have it go well staggers the mind.
They REALLY do not seem to have gotten past that pie in the sky concept.
Now the neo-cons think that staying the course actually exhibits some sort
of moral fiber. Let's sum up, bad war plan, bad execution, bad follow up =
ticket for re-electability. If this Bush-league is granted a 2nd term by
this country I think I may have to look for a home in New Zealand. Sorry
for stoking the flames of this off-topic venture. Truly this belongs in
wreck-govt!

Tim McTeague

wrote:
You see what sort of dialog would ensue, considering the cover-up
about the prisoner treatment where "pfc guilty" is being brought to
trial. When a ship runs aground in port the captain is relieved of
duty. When this sort of interrogation occurs in prison, officers
fairly high in the chain of command are guilty along with the top man
who denies knowing anything about it.

Either the top brass knew what was going on (more likely in my
opinion) and should be censured for approving of the actions at the
prisons, or they didn't and they should be equally censured for the
breakdown in the chain of command which allows the troops to run amok.

--
R.

Richard Brockie "Categorical statements
The tall blond one. always cause trouble."

Mark Hickey wrote in message . ..
"Eric S. Sande" wrote:

You will be aware that Al Qaeda offered negotiation with the EU after
the Madrid train station bombing, it was rejected.

It is possible that a dialogue could be established with these people.

That would be a good first step.

Great idea. Teach the radical fringe elements of the world that if
they cause enough damage, we'll give them an inordinate amount of
power to influence our society.

There are only two ways to deal with the terrorists.

1) Kill them
2) End the brainwashing of the young terrorist candidates before they
are convinced that strapping explosives around their chests and going
for a bus ride is a good idea. The Arab media / leadership wants to
continue to blame the US and Israel for everything that's wrong with
their culture, when in fact the main problem is the Arab media /
leadership.

You're exactly right. We and the IDF are the ones doing the
brainwashing, though. Every time we drop a bomb and kill someone, that
someone's family members are left with a hatred and rage that will not
be satisfied unless they are able to kill some of the people that
killed their family members. Their hatred and rage is so consuming
that they are willing to die to gain their revenge. It does not matter
that we or the Israelis think that we are responding to terrorism and
that the deaths of their family members were unfortunate "collateral
damage". That the deaths were accidental does not make them hate us
any less. It should be obvious that there is no solution to this
spiral of violence except to kill every single Arab in the Middle
East, or find another way that doesn't require dropping bombs on
people.

JP

And this is in a bike newsgroup because???
Doug
For email, a sense of wonder.

"JP" wrote

You're exactly right. We and the IDF are the ones doing the
brainwashing, though. Every time we drop a bomb and kill someone, that
someone's family members are left with a hatred and rage that will not
be satisfied unless they are able to kill some of the people that
killed their family members. Their hatred and rage is so consuming
that they are willing to die to gain their revenge. It does not matter
that we or the Israelis think that we are responding to terrorism and
that the deaths of their family members were unfortunate "collateral
damage". That the deaths were accidental does not make them hate us
any less. It should be obvious that there is no solution to this
spiral of violence except to kill every single Arab in the Middle
East, or find another way that doesn't require dropping bombs on
people.

It appears, in that particular situation, that there is no win for the
Israelis.

If they fight, they are 'the bad guys'. Big bad IDF with their tanks and
aircraft, against the gallant teenager with a bomb, 'trying to defend his
homeland'.
If they do nothing, become completely peaceful and loving, the countries
surrounding them would *still * want to push them out into the sea.
(not saying that all people in that region would subscribe to this, but
there are enough of them to push the issue)

Either way, they lose.

Pete

"Tim McTeague" writes:

The very fact that Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft (I
don't think Bush has any real foreign affairs understanding beyond
good-guy bad-guy) truly seem to believe that we could easily impose
our system of gov't on a dictatorship and have it go well staggers
the mind.

Well, don't forget that Congress is implicated as well. This seems
to have escaped many of the pundits in their haste to blame BushCo
for all things stupid in public policy. Congress is charged with
oversight responsibilities and has shirked these and failed the
American and world public.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...on/8650584.htm

Doug Purdy wrote:
And this is in a bike newsgroup because???

Whaddya, new?

Bill "resigned to it" S.

There are only two ways to deal with the terrorists.

I disagree. I think there is a third way, and it doesn't include war.

I've dealt with a number of pests in my life, including roaches, bedbugs
(nasty), ticks and so forth. I killed them like the bloodsucking bugs
they were.

But terrorists aren't bugs. They are human beings with an agenda.

Yes I will kill them as I encounter them, and send their souls to
Heaven. And when Allah judges them their souls will be cursed for
all eternity, writhing in damnation until the end of time.

But I think it's time to lighten up, I'd as soon shoot Osama as the
next guy, probably faster and more accurately, but whatever.

There remains a slim possibility of negotiation, Al Qaeda cannot
persist as an affront to Allah in it's evil treatment of Islam, every
man's hand should be against this.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

And this is in a bike newsgroup because???

It's a Chinese Airplane thread with a moral component.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________