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#1
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if
nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#2
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On 2/18/2020 1:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. That 'back to gravel' thing intrigued me when first publicized a few years ago. A friend who raises beef in Nebraska says there are roads for which it saves money ( low traffic, no heavy trucks) and roads where it does not. Similarly in Wisconsin, one of our customers, a traffic engineer, worked out that paved shoulders on county roads can save money both on herbicide/mowing and also faster snowplow speeds. Great for cyclists too. That said, these ideas have complex components and not one solution applies universally. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#3
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth. Lou -- - Frank Krygowski |
#4
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: “In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth. Lou -- - Frank Krygowski That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada. Cheers |
#5
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: “In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth. Lou -- - Frank Krygowski That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada.. Cheers This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? They are continually asking for additional taxes for road repairs. People, sick of the poor roads comply and pass these taxes and nothing seems to ever come of them. I noted road repairs after the last gas tax increase - in one rich neighborhood that had good roads to begin with. |
#6
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: “In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth. Lou -- - Frank Krygowski That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada. Cheers This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? ????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads. The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA. People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced. How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too. |
#8
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:23:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: In 10 years, were going to start turning roads back into gravel if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth. Lou -- - Frank Krygowski That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada. Cheers This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? ????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads. The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA. People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced. How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too. But yet roads built in the days of the Roman empire are still in use today albeit with another layer of surfacing although I believe that there are sections of the Via Appia and possibly the Via Aurelia where the original paving is still used. To be a bit pedantic a semi truck don't necessarily destroy roads, it is the tire loading is the determining factor and it is quite possible for a small, heavily loaded, truck to have a higher tire loading and thus do more damage to a road than a large truck, with more wheels and wider tires and thus having a lighter tire loading., I once did a study of wheel loading and potential road damage for the Indonesian National Highway Department demonstrating that 50 ton Oilfield trucks actually caused less damage to the highway than the small, grossly overloaded, 3 ton trucks commonly used by small freight companies. -- cheers, John B. |
#9
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:23:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote: This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? ????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads. The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA. People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced. How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too. And most of these 330 Million citizens are all paying to maintain a road system that is not being maintained. I can't put pictures on here or I could show you roads that you could hardly believe. Even worse now, Google will redirect traffic onto poorly made backroads that were made to only service farm traffic. This very heavy traffic is ruining the roads. Why shouldn't Google be taxed to repair the roads that they are ruining? Riding up Redwood Road yesterday I was passed by an almost continuous stream of traffic. This road was supposed to provide access to two parks, not commute traffic. |
#10
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A real reason for gravel bikes?
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:41:10 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: “In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if nothing changes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding from one county into another. I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth. Lou -- - Frank Krygowski That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada. Cheers This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? They are continually asking for additional taxes for road repairs. People, sick of the poor roads comply and pass these taxes and nothing seems to ever come of them. I noted road repairs after the last gas tax increase - in one rich neighborhood that had good roads to begin with. Eisenhower was the interstate system and not county roads, but existing roads were better 60 years ago -- in large part because they were 60 years newer. Apart from graft and the usual inefficiencies in road building and repair, road maintenance budgets are stretched because of lost gas tax revenues, competition with other public transportation modes, new road construction -- and just a lot of roads to maintain. I'll defer to SMS on this, but it is my understanding that funding for local road construction can come from a lot of sources (state and local bonds, local option taxes, gas tax, etc.), but maintenance may have fewer funding sources or a lower priority over existing sources. When a county gets a nice new rural road, it can be like getting a free Bugatti. It gets a hot new car but can't afford the $21,000 oil change. And if a county is building a lot of new roads, its funding sources may be tapped, and it has nothing left for maintenance -- and then it has even more roads to maintain. One reason why roads are going to hell is because there are so many new roads. -- Jay Beattie. |
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