Need DC motor for 1963 Schwinn World Traveler

On Tuesday, September 7, 2004 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Weisse Luft wrote:
Jim Smith Wrote:
Weisse Luft writes:

It will need a 25 Amp controller and wiring (12 AWG) and will put
out
500 Watts, plenty for your needs)

25 amps at 12 volts is 500 watts?

No. I was reading off charts for that specific motor. You would need
to run it at 18 volts to get that and it would draw a bit more than 25
Amps but most solid state speed controllers can handle the extra 3
Amps.

Since the original poster wanted to run a 12 V battery, he would get a
bit over 300 W, depending on motor timing, load and RPM.


--
Weisse Luft

IMO this can best be done @ 24v (most ebikes are 24 or 36v)
LOTS of pwm controllers out there.

On Monday, September 6, 2004 at 6:58:52 PM UTC-4, CapriciousD wrote:
My name is David Lunde. I am looking for a motor that, in a thus far
fruitless attempt, I have been unable to find. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME
TO READ THIS, AND ANY SUGGESTIONS ANYONE HAS WOULD BE MUCH
APPRECIATED.

Bio:
I am 16 years old and I love outboards, bikes, cars and anything that
moves. I wanted to embark on a project that would be cool and overall
silent - meaning I wanted to make something electric. So here is what
I started...

My project:
I have a 1963 Schwinn world traveler (it was my father's) and I want
to hook a DC motor to it. I did some calculations (thanks to my
physics class) and according to my calculations I produce about 2/3 hp
on my bike. Here are my numbers if anyone is interested. You can do
the calculations


THE CALCULATIONS:

1 hp = 33,000 ft*lbs/min

my ft*lbs/min = my weight (224lbs) * length of the peddle from
rotation axis to end of peddle (7 in. or .58ft) * number of times I
peddle in one minute (50 revolutions/min under uphill conditions and
at slowest speed, full weight on one foot) = 6,533 ft*lbs/min

The rear and front sprockets have a gear ratio of 3.06:1 which means I
am actually peddling with 19,991 ft*lbs/min

This then means that I produce about 19,991/33,000 = .65 or almost 2/3
hp (I don't know if this is realistic. I remember reading someplace
that humans are capable of producing 1/5 hp or so, but this is what I
got.

-I would like speed and power, so I decided on a 1 hp DC motor. This
would be more than enough for me, especially considering two special
features on this Schwinn bike. First of all, it has a transmission.
Meaning there is a 17 tooth sprocket sticking out of a cylinder.
Inside that cylinder are three different gears. Lowest gear just
engages the outside sprocket and 2nd and 3rd gear engage gears inside
the transmission. So if I get this thing working I would be able to
shift gears by disengaging the motor and shifting (pretty cool).
Second of all, (this isn't really a function of the bike but...) I can
gear down the sprocket so I would need less than 1 hp but I want
power. Mounting the motor and future 12VDC car battery holder will be
no problem. Procuring a motor is my problem.

My Project PROBLEM:
-I can't find a flippin' 1 hp 12VDC motor for less than $400!! I
don't have that money! My first thought of solving this problem was
to use a starter motor from a V8 engine. If it can turn a fly wheel
in winter I would hope it could push me up a hill. So I went to a
junk yard and found many starter motors, but the motors (or all the
ones I've seen) have the bendix and the motor cast as one piece of
aluminum. Because of this I can't remove the bendix for fear of there
being no bearings left for the motor (I believe the bearings are cast
into the aluminum). Not only that, but the starter motors are NOT
made to run continuously. If they heat up it can melt soldering,
casting and whatever else is near. So that ruled that out...
The great thing about finding it at a junk yard was it was cheap.

What I need:
I NEED A 1HP 12VDC MOTOR THAT WILL RUN CONTINUOUSLY FOR CHEAP. I am
not very rich. If there is an older style car that someone know about
where the bendix and motor are separate I would be willing to look at
that, but I would rather have a continuous running motor instead. So
if there are any suggestions, please please please e-mail me or
respond back to this. All would be much appreciated.


Thank you for reading this and for your time. There are a lot of good
brains to be picked on the Internet.

Any questions just e-mail me or respond to group. I will look daily
for responses.

Sincerely,
David Lunde



If I read correctly you have an internal gear hub.
3 speed
These are typically 33% reduction in low, 1:1 in 2nd and 25% overdrive in high.
I think you would be best off looking at a "mid drive kit".
This replaces the chain ring and pedals with a dual ring, and a freewheeling hub.
One ring drives the rear wheel and other is driven via the motor mounted on the
frame between your knees.
24volt and 250watts would be ok since you have the 33% reduction gear.
Give up any idea of using a car battery or trolling batt etc.
Use SLA or LiFeP04 at 24v and at least 10ah.
(might want to look around endless-sphere site for more ideas)
Sadly, a CHEAP (gng electric) mid drive system is $200-300 WITHOUT BATTERYS

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 7:33:30 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, September 6, 2004 at 6:58:52 PM UTC-4, CapriciousD wrote:
Snipped

If I read correctly you have an internal gear hub.
Snipped
I think that after TWELVE YEARS that the OP has figured it out.

Cheers

On 1/17/2016 6:33 AM, wrote:
On Monday, September 6, 2004 at 6:58:52 PM UTC-4, CapriciousD wrote:
My name is David Lunde. I am looking for a motor that, in a thus far
fruitless attempt, I have been unable to find. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME
TO READ THIS, AND ANY SUGGESTIONS ANYONE HAS WOULD BE MUCH
APPRECIATED.

Bio:
I am 16 years old and I love outboards, bikes, cars and anything that
moves. I wanted to embark on a project that would be cool and overall
silent - meaning I wanted to make something electric. So here is what
I started...

My project:
I have a 1963 Schwinn world traveler (it was my father's) and I want
to hook a DC motor to it. I did some calculations (thanks to my
physics class) and according to my calculations I produce about 2/3 hp
on my bike. Here are my numbers if anyone is interested. You can do
the calculations


THE CALCULATIONS:

1 hp = 33,000 ft*lbs/min

my ft*lbs/min = my weight (224lbs) * length of the peddle from
rotation axis to end of peddle (7 in. or .58ft) * number of times I
peddle in one minute (50 revolutions/min under uphill conditions and
at slowest speed, full weight on one foot) = 6,533 ft*lbs/min

The rear and front sprockets have a gear ratio of 3.06:1 which means I
am actually peddling with 19,991 ft*lbs/min

This then means that I produce about 19,991/33,000 = .65 or almost 2/3
hp (I don't know if this is realistic. I remember reading someplace
that humans are capable of producing 1/5 hp or so, but this is what I
got.

-I would like speed and power, so I decided on a 1 hp DC motor. This
would be more than enough for me, especially considering two special
features on this Schwinn bike. First of all, it has a transmission.
Meaning there is a 17 tooth sprocket sticking out of a cylinder.
Inside that cylinder are three different gears. Lowest gear just
engages the outside sprocket and 2nd and 3rd gear engage gears inside
the transmission. So if I get this thing working I would be able to
shift gears by disengaging the motor and shifting (pretty cool).
Second of all, (this isn't really a function of the bike but...) I can
gear down the sprocket so I would need less than 1 hp but I want
power. Mounting the motor and future 12VDC car battery holder will be
no problem. Procuring a motor is my problem.

My Project PROBLEM:
-I can't find a flippin' 1 hp 12VDC motor for less than $400!! I
don't have that money! My first thought of solving this problem was
to use a starter motor from a V8 engine. If it can turn a fly wheel
in winter I would hope it could push me up a hill. So I went to a
junk yard and found many starter motors, but the motors (or all the
ones I've seen) have the bendix and the motor cast as one piece of
aluminum. Because of this I can't remove the bendix for fear of there
being no bearings left for the motor (I believe the bearings are cast
into the aluminum). Not only that, but the starter motors are NOT
made to run continuously. If they heat up it can melt soldering,
casting and whatever else is near. So that ruled that out...
The great thing about finding it at a junk yard was it was cheap.

What I need:
I NEED A 1HP 12VDC MOTOR THAT WILL RUN CONTINUOUSLY FOR CHEAP. I am
not very rich. If there is an older style car that someone know about
where the bendix and motor are separate I would be willing to look at
that, but I would rather have a continuous running motor instead. So
if there are any suggestions, please please please e-mail me or
respond back to this. All would be much appreciated.


Thank you for reading this and for your time. There are a lot of good
brains to be picked on the Internet.

Any questions just e-mail me or respond to group. I will look daily
for responses.

Sincerely,
David Lunde



If I read correctly you have an internal gear hub.
3 speed
These are typically 33% reduction in low, 1:1 in 2nd and 25% overdrive in high.
I think you would be best off looking at a "mid drive kit".
This replaces the chain ring and pedals with a dual ring, and a freewheeling hub.
One ring drives the rear wheel and other is driven via the motor mounted on the
frame between your knees.
24volt and 250watts would be ok since you have the 33% reduction gear.
Give up any idea of using a car battery or trolling batt etc.
Use SLA or LiFeP04 at 24v and at least 10ah.
(might want to look around endless-sphere site for more ideas)
Sadly, a CHEAP (gng electric) mid drive system is $200-300 WITHOUT BATTERYS


The dominant three speed gearbox format is 4:3 and 3:4, that
is 25% reduction in low and 33% increase in high.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/17/2016 8:10 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 7:33:30 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, September 6, 2004 at 6:58:52 PM UTC-4, CapriciousD wrote:
Snipped

If I read correctly you have an internal gear hub.
Snipped
I think that after TWELVE YEARS that the OP has figured it out.

Cheers


OP noted on 6 September 2004 that he would check back.


"Any questions just e-mail me or respond to group. I will
look daily for responses.
Sincerely,
David Lunde"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2016 6:33 AM, wrote:
On Monday, September 6, 2004 at 6:58:52 PM UTC-4, CapriciousD wrote:
My name is David Lunde. I am looking for a motor that, in a thus far
fruitless attempt, I have been unable to find. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME
TO READ THIS, AND ANY SUGGESTIONS ANYONE HAS WOULD BE MUCH
APPRECIATED.

Bio:
I am 16 years old and I love outboards, bikes, cars and anything that
moves. I wanted to embark on a project that would be cool and overall
silent - meaning I wanted to make something electric. So here is what
I started...

My project:
I have a 1963 Schwinn world traveler (it was my father's) and I want
to hook a DC motor to it. I did some calculations (thanks to my
physics class) and according to my calculations I produce about 2/3 hp
on my bike. Here are my numbers if anyone is interested. You can do
the calculations


THE CALCULATIONS:

1 hp = 33,000 ft*lbs/min

my ft*lbs/min = my weight (224lbs) * length of the peddle from
rotation axis to end of peddle (7 in. or .58ft) * number of times I
peddle in one minute (50 revolutions/min under uphill conditions and
at slowest speed, full weight on one foot) = 6,533 ft*lbs/min

The rear and front sprockets have a gear ratio of 3.06:1 which means I
am actually peddling with 19,991 ft*lbs/min

This then means that I produce about 19,991/33,000 = .65 or almost 2/3
hp (I don't know if this is realistic. I remember reading someplace
that humans are capable of producing 1/5 hp or so, but this is what I
got.

-I would like speed and power, so I decided on a 1 hp DC motor. This
would be more than enough for me, especially considering two special
features on this Schwinn bike. First of all, it has a transmission.
Meaning there is a 17 tooth sprocket sticking out of a cylinder.
Inside that cylinder are three different gears. Lowest gear just
engages the outside sprocket and 2nd and 3rd gear engage gears inside
the transmission. So if I get this thing working I would be able to
shift gears by disengaging the motor and shifting (pretty cool).
Second of all, (this isn't really a function of the bike but...) I can
gear down the sprocket so I would need less than 1 hp but I want
power. Mounting the motor and future 12VDC car battery holder will be
no problem. Procuring a motor is my problem.

My Project PROBLEM:
-I can't find a flippin' 1 hp 12VDC motor for less than $400!! I
don't have that money! My first thought of solving this problem was
to use a starter motor from a V8 engine. If it can turn a fly wheel
in winter I would hope it could push me up a hill. So I went to a
junk yard and found many starter motors, but the motors (or all the
ones I've seen) have the bendix and the motor cast as one piece of
aluminum. Because of this I can't remove the bendix for fear of there
being no bearings left for the motor (I believe the bearings are cast
into the aluminum). Not only that, but the starter motors are NOT
made to run continuously. If they heat up it can melt soldering,
casting and whatever else is near. So that ruled that out...
The great thing about finding it at a junk yard was it was cheap.

What I need:
I NEED A 1HP 12VDC MOTOR THAT WILL RUN CONTINUOUSLY FOR CHEAP. I am
not very rich. If there is an older style car that someone know about
where the bendix and motor are separate I would be willing to look at
that, but I would rather have a continuous running motor instead. So
if there are any suggestions, please please please e-mail me or
respond back to this. All would be much appreciated.


Thank you for reading this and for your time. There are a lot of good
brains to be picked on the Internet.

Any questions just e-mail me or respond to group. I will look daily
for responses.

Sincerely,
David Lunde



If I read correctly you have an internal gear hub.
3 speed
These are typically 33% reduction in low, 1:1 in 2nd and 25% overdrive in high.
I think you would be best off looking at a "mid drive kit".
This replaces the chain ring and pedals with a dual ring, and a freewheeling hub.
One ring drives the rear wheel and other is driven via the motor mounted on the
frame between your knees.
24volt and 250watts would be ok since you have the 33% reduction gear.
Give up any idea of using a car battery or trolling batt etc.
Use SLA or LiFeP04 at 24v and at least 10ah.
(might want to look around endless-sphere site for more ideas)
Sadly, a CHEAP (gng electric) mid drive system is $200-300 WITHOUT BATTERYS


The dominant three speed gearbox format is 4:3 and 3:4, that
is 25% reduction in low and 33% increase in high.


Your initial power calculations are flawed in a number of ways. Luckily,
the two largest errors somewhat compensate for each other. I personally can
put out 100W for many hours, 200W for maybe 15 min, and 1 hp for a few
seconds. Electric motors have the ability to be briefly overloaded, so as
long as your controller can "back off" after a while, you could use a
smaller motor. I would suggest at least 200 W, and probably no more than
450 W.

On 1/17/2016 4:27 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 7, 2004 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Weisse Luft wrote:
Jim Smith Wrote:
Weisse Luft writes:

It will need a 25 Amp controller and wiring (12 AWG) and will put
out
500 Watts, plenty for your needs)

25 amps at 12 volts is 500 watts?

No. I was reading off charts for that specific motor. You would need
to run it at 18 volts to get that and it would draw a bit more than 25
Amps but most solid state speed controllers can handle the extra 3
Amps.

Since the original poster wanted to run a 12 V battery, he would get a
bit over 300 W, depending on motor timing, load and RPM.


--
Weisse Luft

IMO this can best be done @ 24v (most ebikes are 24 or 36v)
LOTS of pwm controllers out there.

A 1HP 12V motor is very expensive, and heavy.

It's much more economical to use a 24V motor and just use batteries in
series.

1 HP is probably too big anyway. A person can output about 300 watts,
and 1 HP is about 746 watts. A lot of bicycle motors are in the 300 watt
range.

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24v30mowisp.html

On 1/17/2016 4:27 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 7, 2004 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Weisse Luft wrote:
Jim Smith Wrote:
Weisse Luft writes:

It will need a 25 Amp controller and wiring (12 AWG) and will put
out
500 Watts, plenty for your needs)

25 amps at 12 volts is 500 watts?

No. I was reading off charts for that specific motor. You would need
to run it at 18 volts to get that and it would draw a bit more than 25
Amps but most solid state speed controllers can handle the extra 3
Amps.

Since the original poster wanted to run a 12 V battery, he would get a
bit over 300 W, depending on motor timing, load and RPM.


--
Weisse Luft

IMO this can best be done @ 24v (most ebikes are 24 or 36v)
LOTS of pwm controllers out there.


A whole kit, without the batteries:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/48v-500w-electric-bike-conversion-kits-electric-bicycle-kit-e-bike-kit-48v-500w/1366272408.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searc hweb201644_5_10014_10001_10002_10005_301_10006_100 03_10004_62,searchweb201560_5,searchweb1451318400_ 6148,searchweb1451318411_6448