I try hard to support my LBS

but...

So I went in today for a single spoke for an old mountain bike that I wanted
to fix up enough to sell. Simple enough, right? Since its an old freehub
which I didn't have the removal tool for (drive side spoke), I asked the guy
if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure, but it'll be a couple of
dollars labor." I was stunned, but said that'd be fine. Removal takes 20
seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the
spoke and $7.50 in labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to
give me some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

I mean, really. He made 7.50 on me but I'll never be back and certainly
never buy a bike from them. I probably could have bought the right freewheel
tool for less money. Not good buisness practices in my opinion. They have
too much competition to treat customers like that.

In other news, the spoke went in and the wheel is true. Good thing I did
that myself or it would have cost more then the whole bike is worth.

-j

In article ,
says...
but...

So I went in today for a single spoke for an old mountain bike that I wanted
to fix up enough to sell. Simple enough, right? Since its an old freehub
which I didn't have the removal tool for (drive side spoke), I asked the guy
if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure, but it'll be a couple of
dollars labor." I was stunned, but said that'd be fine. Removal takes 20
seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the
spoke and $7.50 in labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to
give me some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

I mean, really. He made 7.50 on me but I'll never be back and certainly
never buy a bike from them. I probably could have bought the right freewheel
tool for less money. Not good buisness practices in my opinion. They have
too much competition to treat customers like that.

In other news, the spoke went in and the wheel is true. Good thing I did
that myself or it would have cost more then the whole bike is worth.

-j



Just out of curiosity, what do you think he should have charged you?
What were you expecting to be charged?
--
Mark

Josh wrote:
but...

So I went in today for a single spoke for an old mountain bike that I wanted
to fix up enough to sell. Simple enough, right? Since its an old freehub
which I didn't have the removal tool for (drive side spoke), I asked the guy
if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure, but it'll be a couple of
dollars labor." I was stunned, but said that'd be fine. Removal takes 20
seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the
spoke and $7.50 in labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to
give me some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

I mean, really. He made 7.50 on me but I'll never be back and certainly
never buy a bike from them. I probably could have bought the right freewheel
tool for less money. Not good buisness practices in my opinion. They have
too much competition to treat customers like that.

In other news, the spoke went in and the wheel is true. Good thing I did
that myself or it would have cost more then the whole bike is worth.

-j



Right. We offer to sell the tool(s) or charge a reasonable fee to do
the job. Most customers end up paying the $7.50 or so ($5 is good). I
think your Local Shop Guy is right. If you were a regular customer and
had spent money with us, we often do it for free, but not for somebody
who just walks in off the street and we have no relationship with them.

I think this kind of thinking is symptomatic of a larger school of
thought and that is that, since bicycles aren't worth alot of money,
usually, in the scheme of things, the labor to service them ought to be
inexpensive. That's nice except a guy has to make a living. So does
his boss and the other employees and associates of the shop. Most
decent mechanics don't make much money. Think for a minute what a
living wage is (for skilled labor) and figure out what it costs to pay a
mechanic. If you're not making $30K in urban areas you're living
*cough* frugally. Then figure what it costs to keep the joint open, and
to pay the guy when he's not busy making money for you when business is
slow. Don't forget those jobs that turn out, for one reason or another,
to end up as a time-consuming money-loser. Oh, and you gotta love 'em
when they stand around and ask questions (grasping desperately for
social connection) for 20 or more minutes and then buy some $6 widget,
or nothing at all. Frankly, we can make more money answering the phones
than piddling with cassette or freewheel removals.
What's *your* time worth? Do you think these people ought to be able to
earn a living?

People wonder why LBS's can't stay in business.

I'm sure Peter Chisholm does it cheaper, faster (maybe) and better.



Robin Hubert

Mark wrote:

In article ,
says...
but...

So I went in today for a single spoke for an old mountain bike that I wanted
to fix up enough to sell. Simple enough, right? Since its an old freehub
which I didn't have the removal tool for (drive side spoke), I asked the guy
if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure, but it'll be a couple of
dollars labor." I was stunned, but said that'd be fine. Removal takes 20
seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the
spoke and $7.50 in labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to
give me some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

I mean, really. He made 7.50 on me but I'll never be back and certainly
never buy a bike from them. I probably could have bought the right freewheel
tool for less money. Not good buisness practices in my opinion. They have
too much competition to treat customers like that.

In other news, the spoke went in and the wheel is true. Good thing I did
that myself or it would have cost more then the whole bike is worth.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think he should have charged you?

Good question. Another question is: could you define the relationship
that you had with this gentleman and with this LBS prior to your
walking in with this request?

They need to pay the bills one way or the other. If you're a regular
customer--a known quantity in the shop, then you're likely to get the
occasional freebie.

Still: even if my LBS did me that favor, I'd have slipped the wrench a
five-spot for his troubles. This is kind of the way the quid pro quo
of favors works.
--
Live simply so that others may simply live

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 18:24:06 -0500, "Josh" wrote:

but...

So I went in today for a single spoke for an old mountain bike that I wanted
to fix up enough to sell. Simple enough, right? Since its an old freehub
which I didn't have the removal tool for (drive side spoke), I asked the guy
if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure, but it'll be a couple of
dollars labor." I was stunned, but said that'd be fine. Removal takes 20
seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the
spoke and $7.50 in labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to
give me some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

I mean, really. He made 7.50 on me but I'll never be back and certainly
never buy a bike from them. I probably could have bought the right freewheel
tool for less money. Not good buisness practices in my opinion. They have
too much competition to treat customers like that.

In other news, the spoke went in and the wheel is true. Good thing I did
that myself or it would have cost more then the whole bike is worth.

I've got sorta the same question as Mark, but mine's rhetorical: What the hell
did you expect. They're supposed to do free work for you so you will buy a
seventy five cent spoke. Which is, by the way, a damn reasonable price for a
spoke. Maybe you should've bought that tool.

What the hell do you charge, or what does your employer charge for your
services?

Sorry, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me on this. You asked a guy to do
work for you, using tools he paid for and will have to replace, in a work
environment with electricity and rent and plumbing, some of which will be needed
to clean up after the job and you don't think they should charge for it.

Ron

Honestly, at $50-$60 an hour a freewheel removal which is a 5 minute
fixed-price job which should cost $4-$5, not $7.50. What, did the guy
go in the back of the shop and search for the right tool for 8.5
minutes? Get real.

It's shops like this that give cycling a bad reputation. It's shops
like this that deserve to be bankrupt financially, they are already
bankrupt morally, end of story.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Josh wrote:
but...

So I went in today for a single spoke for an old mountain bike that I wanted
to fix up enough to sell. Simple enough, right? Since its an old freehub
which I didn't have the removal tool for (drive side spoke), I asked the guy
if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure, but it'll be a couple of
dollars labor." I was stunned, but said that'd be fine. Removal takes 20
seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the
spoke and $7.50 in labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to
give me some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

I mean, really. He made 7.50 on me but I'll never be back and certainly
never buy a bike from them. I probably could have bought the right freewheel
tool for less money. Not good buisness practices in my opinion. They have
too much competition to treat customers like that.

In other news, the spoke went in and the wheel is true. Good thing I did
that myself or it would have cost more then the whole bike is worth.

-j


Most shops have a clearly posted minimum shop charge. Still, it's
frustrating having to pay close to(well maybe half as much as) the cost
of the tool. The only time I've asked a shop to remove a freewheel was
once when I managed to get a piece of wire wedged between it and the hub
while on a ride. I didn't fancy a walk home.
DH

In article ,

I asked the guy if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure,
but it'll be a couple of dollars labor." I was stunned, but said
that'd be fine. Removal takes 20 seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I
go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the spoke and $7.50 in
labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to give me
some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

Honestly, at $50-$60 an hour labor (which has plenty of profit margin
for a shop that's financially well-managed), a freewheel removal from
a customer-provided wheel is a 30 second fixed-price job and should
probably be billed at 5 mins minumum labor charge, costing maybe
$4-$5, not $7.50. What, did the guy go in the back of the shop and
search for the right tool for 8.5 minutes? Get real.

It's shops like this that give cycling a bad reputation. It's shops
like this - bankrupt morally - that deserve to be bankrupt financially.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

(Donald Gillies) wrote:

In article ,

I asked the guy if he could spin it off for me. He goes, "sure,
but it'll be a couple of dollars labor." I was stunned, but said
that'd be fine. Removal takes 20 seconds, maybe 30 at the most. I
go to pay and they charge me $0.75 for the spoke and $7.50 in
labor charges. When I said that was crazy he started to give me
some speech about how he has to pay his mechanics blah blah blah

Honestly, at $50-$60 an hour labor (which has plenty of profit margin
for a shop that's financially well-managed), a freewheel removal from
a customer-provided wheel is a 30 second fixed-price job and should
probably be billed at 5 mins minumum labor charge, costing maybe
$4-$5, not $7.50. What, did the guy go in the back of the shop and
search for the right tool for 8.5 minutes? Get real.

It's shops like this that give cycling a bad reputation. It's shops
like this - bankrupt morally - that deserve to be bankrupt financially.

Reading your first post, Don, I did think more about the amount. I
agree with you about $7.50 being a bit high, but the question remains:
if the charge was $5.00, would the OP feel any differently?

It's possible, but ... for some people ... they are incensed at being
charged *any* amount for this kind of service. It is with *this*
position that I disagree.

Now, as to wishing bankruptcy on a small business based on a single
action of a single person--a person that may or may not *own* the
business ... that may be a bit too far toward the other direction for
me. If it were not the owner, I might talk *to* the owner and ask if
the charge were something that he/she supports.

The *owner* might feel differently.
--
Live simply so that others may simply live

I'm with Josh on this. If the store guy had not said, "but it'll be a
couple a couple of dollars labor," then maybe the $7.50 could be considered
a reasable minimum. To me, " a couple dollars labor" is a price quotation,
and they should have stuck to it. My $2 worth.

Also, it would have been nice if the guy had said, "I can sell you the tool
for less than the labor cost. Do you want to do it yourself?"

Josh is not asking for a freeby, He's asking not to be sucked in.