ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF

On Jun 5, 6:56*pm, Bob Schwartz
wrote:
hizark21 wrote:
Actually Bruyneel has the option of keeping the riders he wanted.

Bob Schwartz wrote:
hizark21 wrote:
Yes, but Astana has gotten rid of all the old management and most of
07's riders. Like I said before the ASO should have told Astana that
they have to resolve certain issues if they want to enter to the
TDF.
Of the 30 riders on their roster, 17 were there last year.
Most of last year's riders are still there. Which is to be
expected I suppose, since most if not all of the holdovers
would have multi-year contracts.

Bob Schwartz

Very well. Then the team is mostly the same as last year,
adding a few select riders such as Levi (Ferrari) Leipheimer
and Alberto (Puerto) Contador.

So why are you making the case that Astana hasn't earned this
by ****ing in the soup more than once?

Aren't you the guy that wants the death penalty for first
time dopers? ASO is taking a hard line. You should be cheering
this.


Name one rider on currently riding for Astana that has been found
tested positive...?
Bob Schwartz

On Jun 7, 5:13*am, wrote:
On Jun 7, 3:43*am, hizark21 wrote:

If ASO decides to become a private series of races
then they need to come up with a uniform standard method for allowing
teams or excluding them. ASO also needs to publish their procedures
for choosing teams as well.

I suggest you have it the wrong way around. If the TdF moves
completely outside the bounds of world cycling governance then they
can, and will, invite whomever they please whenever they please.

I agree that the ASO has the right to conduct a private race. But I
also agree with the UCI that French cycling federation should not be
involved if they choose to do so.


Apparently that is already reality since 2/3s of last years podium is
being left out of the 2008 race. Unless people stop watching the TdF,
or teams fail to queue up like lemmings for their invites, there will
be no problems for ASO and no reason for ASO leadership to change
their behavior.

You guys seem to be arguing from a basis of "fairness" and "what is
right". None of those trite concepts is in play. This is politics and
power with the doping issue being dramatized and used merely as a
lever to accomplish other objectives.

Already the race has lost something for me and my fandom. Yeah, I'll
still watch the TV coverage at night after my training ride but I
won't be glued to the internet waiting for minute by minute updates
this year to find out whose wheel Cadel sucked to the top of each
mountain top finish.

TIOOYK

Mark

On Jun 8, 2:28*pm, wrote:
On Jun 7, 9:46*am, Bob Schwartz
wrote:

Cipo

As a side discussion the Cipo analogy is interesting. He is certainly
a character that folks could easily dislike. He won too much and has
excess panache. That said, excluding a sprinter who won't make it to
Paris is not the same as excluding last years winner (even if Contador
inherited the win due to the politics around Rasmussen and Rabobank).

Just as the Tour will not miss Astana.

I can see your perspective on this but don't fully agree. The tour may
not miss Astana this year but ASO will ultimately damage their
brand(s) by playing this type of politics to try and increase their
already significant influence on the sport.

The only way I see to resolve the this conflict is for the riders to
strike at the TDF and refuse to ride. The only question is if their is
enough motivation for them to support such a action.

It's possible, perhaps likely, that Astana staying home may actually
make for a more entertaining race. It won't be another Postal (Astana)
parade for three weeks and we should see some open racing for the
individual stages. But for the GC there is an asterisk since the best
GC riders are not competing this year.

TIOOYK

Mark

On 2008-06-09 04:00:32 +0200, jean-yves hervé said:

But if they had hired Michael "pure as snow" Rasmussen they'd be OK,

No.

--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen

"Besides, if you can't get a decent kernal panic
or two in a month, what's the point of living?"

On Jun 9, 2:50*am, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
wrote in message

...



You dismiss out of hand the micro-dosing riders admit to use and wich
is pretty much undetectable.

And also pretty ineffective. Look, people have been quoting medical tests
before showing no physical results from using these drugs to which the
critics proclaim, "But they weren't using the huge doses that athletes use.."
Now you're insinuating that the smaller doses work.



On the non-effectiveness I will say this: The so-called wonder
doctors, the quacks who use these ineffective methods seem to have
gotten decent results. All a coincidence.

Also, the notion that teams, who monitor
their riders progress and live on their lips with them many days a
year, fail to see the signs is quite honestly a big stretch.

Signs of WHAT?

Oh, I don't know? Rock steady HCT levels? Sudden jumps in blood
values? Testosterone levels wich are fluctuating wildly?

Tom, if you were a DS of a multi-million dollar team, would you try to
be up to snuff about your riders blood value? If not for health/form,
but also for the risk of getting a dope scandal? If you answer yes to
that one, is it far-fetched that actual DS'es also want to know this
and thus test their riders regularly? Now if you answer YES to those
questions, isnt it odd that in the vast majority of cases the team
says:

"Uhhhh we are very disapointed and surprised in rider X"

Name one rider on currently riding for Astana that has been found tested
positive...?

Half the riders in this picture "look" like they may have tested positive
for something!

http://www.astana-cyclingteam.com/Rider_Overview.aspx

Astana needs to get a new photographer and lighting technician. God that
website is terrible.

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:06:01 -0700 (PDT), hizark21
wrote:

Name one rider on currently riding for Astana that has been found
tested positive...?

Benoit Joachim

hizark21 wrote:

On Jun 5, 6:56 pm, Bob Schwartz
wrote:
hizark21 wrote:
Actually Bruyneel has the option of keeping the riders he wanted.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
hizark21 wrote:
Yes, but Astana has gotten rid of all the old management and most of
07's riders. Like I said before the ASO should have told Astana that
they have to resolve certain issues if they want to enter to the
TDF.
Of the 30 riders on their roster, 17 were there last year.
Most of last year's riders are still there. Which is to be
expected I suppose, since most if not all of the holdovers
would have multi-year contracts.
Bob Schwartz
Very well. Then the team is mostly the same as last year,
adding a few select riders such as Levi (Ferrari) Leipheimer
and Alberto (Puerto) Contador.

So why are you making the case that Astana hasn't earned this
by ****ing in the soup more than once?

Aren't you the guy that wants the death penalty for first
time dopers? ASO is taking a hard line. You should be cheering
this.


Name one rider on currently riding for Astana that has been found
tested positive...?
Bob Schwartz


Levi.

Really, you're a piece of work. Militantly anti-doping,
except when you're not. This is a team that has produced
major doping scandals in two of the three grand tours.
A team that has repeatedly ****ed up in that respect. A
team that has cast shadows over the last two editions
of the Tour. And here you are, Mr Bring-the-hammer-
against-doping, sticking up for them.

Dude, WTF. If you aren't going to stand up for your own
damn beliefs, don't expect anyone else to.

Bob Schwartz

PS They could have completed the grand tour trifecta by
****ing in the Giro's soup. I'm kind of disappointed
they passed.

On Jun 9, 2:53*am, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
wrote in message

...



I just got the latest Velo magazine, which I assume is owned by ASO.
Despite its publication following the conclusion of the Giro, only a
single minor mention of Contador. Basically, he doesn't exist, as far
as ASO is concerned.

We're seeing a rather odd time in the sport right now Ilan. I've decided not
to follow the Tour this year and concentrate on the Giro and Vuelta which
has real racing.

If things go as planned, my wife and I will be buying a place in Aix-
les-Bains. That way, I'll only have to deal with the Tour on years
they go there. Maybe the mess will be resolved by then.

-ilan

On Jun 9, 7:09*am, Bob Schwartz
wrote:
hizark21 wrote:

On Jun 5, 6:56 pm, Bob Schwartz
wrote:
hizark21 wrote:
Actually Bruyneel has the option of keeping the riders he wanted.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
hizark21 wrote:
Yes, but Astana has gotten rid of all the old management and most of
07's riders. Like I said before the ASO should have told Astana that
they have to resolve certain issues if they want to enter to the
TDF.
Of the 30 riders on their roster, 17 were there last year.
Most of last year's riders are still there. Which is to be
expected I suppose, since most if not all of the holdovers
would have multi-year contracts.
Bob Schwartz
Very well. Then the team is mostly the same as last year,
adding a few select riders such as Levi (Ferrari) Leipheimer
and Alberto (Puerto) Contador.

So why are you making the case that Astana hasn't earned this
by ****ing in the soup more than once?

Aren't you the guy that wants the death penalty for first
time dopers? ASO is taking a hard line. You should be cheering
this.

Name one rider on currently riding for Astana that has been found
tested positive...?
Bob Schwartz

Levi.

Really, you're a piece of work. Militantly anti-doping,
except when you're not. This is a team that has produced
major doping scandals in two of the three grand tours.
A team that has repeatedly ****ed up in that respect. A
team that has cast shadows over the last two editions
of the Tour. And here you are, Mr Bring-the-hammer-
against-doping, sticking up for them.

Dude, WTF. If you aren't going to stand up for your own
damn beliefs, don't expect anyone else to.

Bob Schwartz

PS They could have completed the grand tour trifecta by
****ing in the Giro's soup. I'm kind of disappointed
they passed.

Like I said before the ASO should have told Astana that they have a
issue with the team and that they needed to make personnel changes to
satisfy them.